Other:AMFA transfers to stake

Since all transfers from Other:AMFA to the stake appear in the stake's top-level Other:AMFA category, it is critical for the ward clerk to communicate with the stake clerk what should be done with the transferred funds. In the past, our stake clerk has ignored those funds and left them at the top-level category for the auditor to find, and then record as an audit exception.

Regardless, it occurred to my hacker brain today that the stake clerk is not forced to transfer those Other:AMFA funds to an appropriate subcategory, meaning the subcategory that most closely matches the purpose for which the funds were raised. For example, if the ward has a fundraiser for YW Camp, and then transfers those funds to the stake's top-level Other:AMFA category, there are no controls in place to require the stake to expend those funds for anything related to YW Camp. I don't believe there is anything in the audit that asks the auditor to "follow the money trail" to ensure that funds raised for YW Camp were spent in support of YW Camp.

I guess the stake clerk(s) just have to police themselves.

drepouille wrote: I guess the stake clerk(s) just have to police themselves.

Stake clerks are audited too, and leaving the funds in the top level account is something the auditors check.

jonesrk wrote:Stake clerks are audited too, and leaving the funds in the top level account is something the auditors check.

And that is exactly what I said at the end of my first paragraph. My point in the second paragraph is that there is nothing to ensure that the stake clerk transfers those funds into a subcategory that is appropriate to the purpose for which the funds were raised by the wards. Since the wards cannot see the stake's subcategories, the ward clerks cannot control which stake subcategory receives the transferred funds. And I have never seen an auditor follow that money trail to ensure that the funds raised by the wards are spent by the stake for appropriate expenses.

Indeed, when the stake receives a funds transfer from a ward, it is difficult for the stake clerk to determine the purpose of the funds transfer, especially if the ward clerk did not enter any meaningful comments for the transfer. If multiple wards transfer money at the same time to the stake for multiple purposes (YW camp, YM camp, EFY, etc.), then it becomes even more difficult for the stake clerk to sift through all the incoming transfers, and to then transfer those funds into appropriate Other:AMFA subcategories. So even if the stake clerk has the best intentions, he can easily move those funds into an incorrect/inappropriate subcategory, and the auditor would not have a reason to verify that.

So, to rephrase the concern, it's not that the funds would be left at the top level, but maintaining the continuity from donation purpose to spending.

Someone auditing just the ward or just the stake isn't seeing the whole picture and isn't likely to discover that funds donated for one purpose is spent on another. For example, a ward YW camp donation ends up going to stake Boy Scouts.

During the audit, we look at expenses, donations, financial statements, and the contents of Other:AMFA. However, I can't remember anything in the audit that examines internal or external transfers.

I remember years ago when I first became stake clerk, and I performed some rather creative internal transfers to clean up both budget and Other:AMFA categories. I was really worried that the next audit would slap my hand, but nothing was said, because there was nothing in the audit that examined transfers.

We have been encouraging the auditors to include transfers in their testing phase.
We have also been encouraging the Ward/Stake Clerks and Assistant Clerks attach documentation, be more descriptive in their memo when completing a transfer.
I see transfers as being used over checks in the near future, including EFT to members.
I expect the instruction to auditors will evolve as transactions move more online.
Our supporting documentation is evolving and right now a bit excessive. It's better than not having any documentation.
When we transfer funds received from another unit into the AMFA we document what it was for and where it was placed. We cross-check.
While I would prefer the funds be transferred directly to the correct sub-category the current version of the online program does not allow this.

pima3k wrote:While I would prefer the funds be transferred directly to the correct sub-category the current version of the online program does not allow this.

Actually, shortly after I posted, I noticed that LCR Finance was changed so wards can see the stake's AMFA subcategories for transfers!
So I can now transfer directly from my YW Camp fund to the stake's YW Camp fund.