Cub Scout program

I'm wondering who has some experience and understanding in the way a Cub Scout program should be run (or is best run, in their experience).

• What callings report to whom? (line of authority)
• Who are the key players in making it all work?
• Who has the spiritual authority to make pack decisions?
  • The budget total, and contributions of each den.
  • The overall direction of the program.

Any references to CHI or otherwise would be most helpful!

I'm really in need of some understanding here (and soon)! Please join in the discussion.

kylems wrote:Any references to CHI or otherwise would be most helpful!

Some helpful online resources are available in the Scouting in Primary (US and Canada) area of lds.org (under Serving in the Church > Primary).

kylems wrote:I'm wondering who has some experience and understanding in the way a Cub Scout program should be run (or is best run, in their experience).

• What callings report to whom? (line of authority)
• Who are the key players in making it all work?
• Who has the spiritual authority to make pack decisions?
  • The budget total, and contributions of each den.
  • The overall direction of the program.

Any references to CHI or otherwise would be most helpful!

I'm really in need of some understanding here (and soon)! Please join in the discussion.

For references see the CHI, book 2, p 237-238; and the Scouting Handbook.

Essentially the bishop provides the direction for Scouting and the primary presidency is responsible for Scouting programs for Primary-age boys. For 8- to 10-year-old boys the Cub Scout program applies. For 11-year-old boys the Boy Scout program applies. Regardless of the program the primary presidency has all the authority to run the program, recommend callings to the bishop, and the budget for the programs.

Information on funding for Cub Scouting is found in the CHI, book 2, p 237 & 238. Information for the leadership of Cub Scouting is found on p 230-231 and in the Scouting Handbook.

So for each of your bullets this is a brief summary

• What callings report to whom? (line of authority)
  All Cub Scout callings report to the primary presidency who is then responsible to the bishop
• Who are the key players in making it all work?
  The primary presidency will decide what callings are necessary to meet the needs of the primary age boys. But generally a Cub Committee would be called to assist the primary presidency and the Scouting leaders. Some of the Cub Scout leader positions needed would be Cubmaster, Den Leader (number dependent on number of Dens), and Webelos Leader. Assitants may becalled as needed.
• Who has the spiritual authority to make pack decisions?
  The Cubmaster under the direction of the primary presidency runs the pack.
  • The budget total, and contributions of each den.
    The budget for all Scouting programs in primary comes from the primary budget.
  • The overall direction of the program.
    Under the direction of the bishop the primary presidency runs the program. The primary presidency then directs the Cubmaster.

Also be aware that 2 deep trained leaders are part of the Boy Scout program that is often overlooked. Both the training & additional leader are for the safety of both scouts and leaders. They are not luxuries and should not be overlooked.

scion wrote:Also be aware that 2 deep trained leaders are part of the Boy Scout program that is often overlooked. Both the training & additional leader are for the safety of both scouts and leaders. They are not luxuries and should not be overlooked.

I was going to bring this up as well.
In certain areas, the BSA policy is more restrictive than church policy, and in other areas, the reverse is true. Since the church accepts BSA policies and procedures we should adhere to the strictest policy in each case.

By BSA policy, the minimum two leaders meeting with the boys must both be registered with the BSA (and therefore gone through a background check). By church policy, the minimum of two leaders is only required if one is male, and they then must both be male unless they are a married couple. The BSA has no policy regarding the gender of the leaders.

When I was the pack committee chair, we allowed a parent to be the second leader even if they were not registered with the BSA. And in some rare cases, if only one leader was available, she met with the boys with the door open. But in the strictest sense, these were against policy.

As you know there are other areas where the church operates cub scout and boy scout programs different from the norm. I found the resources at the BSA LDS Relationships website to be very helpful (especially the Scouting and the Church pamphlet).
http://ldsbsa.org/resources.html
There are also other helpful resources at the following site:
http://lds-scouts.org/Resources.asp

Awesome links! Thank you!

As someone who did not grow up around scouts, I read each scout book before my son reached the next age, then worked with him to set goals. Sometimes the BSA directions differed from LDS instructions. However, nobody told us that and I couldn't locate any source that explained those differences.

He was very disappointed when, after earning a pile of beltloops, badges, & pins and the arrow of light as a Webelo, he was not allowed to move on to Boy Scouts due to his age. Having to wait several months to move made it much harder to get him started in Boy Scouts. Had I been aware of that situation in advance, I would have approached it differently and slowed down what he was getting done.

Greggo wrote:I found the resources at the BSA LDS Relationships website to be very helpful (especially the Scouting and the Church pamphlet).
http://ldsbsa.org/resources.html
There are also other helpful resources at the following site:
http://lds-scouts.org/Resources.asp

Thanks for pointing us to these resources!

scion wrote:Also be aware that 2 deep trained leaders are part of the Boy Scout program that is often overlooked. Both the training & additional leader are for the safety of both scouts and leaders. They are not luxuries and should not be overlooked.

Good point!

I've been in cub scouts several times. The basic understanding is that in Cub Scouts the PARENTS are the instructors/motivaters/planners as boys at 8-10 years of age only want to goof around and don't have the experience or organizational skills to do it themselves like the Boy Scouts.

Pack meetings "goof around" is in the hands of a good Pack Master. The more outgoing and funner the better.

My experience in LDS units is that parents want to leave it to the "Leaders of the program" when it is up to them and no one else. A good Committee Chairman will explain this to each parent... and every parent should be on the committee.

kf5cfz wrote: Pack meetings "goof around" is in the hands of a good Pack Master.

I know I'm nit-picking here, but the correct term is "Cubmaster."

scion wrote:Sometimes the BSA directions differed from LDS instructions. However, nobody told us that and I couldn't locate any source that explained those differences.

He was very disappointed when, after earning a pile of beltloops, badges, & pins and the arrow of light as a Webelo, he was not allowed to move on to Boy Scouts due to his age. Having to wait several months to move made it much harder to get him started in Boy Scouts. Had I been aware of that situation in advance, I would have approached it differently and slowed down what he was getting done.

I am not aware of a good, consolidated source. Most members and many leaders do not understand the differences.

I do hope that your son was able to move right into Boy Scouts as a Tenderfoot when he did turn 11, having earned his Arrow of Light as a Cub Scout.

One of the things that many outside the Church admire about the way we do Scouting is that we do have an 11-year-old Scout patrol, giving the younger Scouts a greater advantage in completing Second and First Class Scout requirements, and preparing them to be involved with the older Scouts when they turn 12. Some of the troops in our area have adjusted their patrols so that the newer scouts are together and led by qualified leaders and experienced Scouts to get them up to speed faster.

I would also point out that the Pack Committee Chair would be involved in the decision making in addition to the Cubmaster

In our Ward the leaders insist that the parents not be on he committee unless they are called. Is this contradicted by any documentation anywhere that I can show them? I'd really like to volunteer but the leaders are making it hard in an organization that is supposedly supposed to be run by the parents.

jessestay wrote:In our Ward the leaders insist that the parents not be on he committee unless they are called. Is this contradicted by any documentation anywhere that I can show them? I'd really like to volunteer but the leaders are making it hard in an organization that is supposedly supposed to be run by the parents.

I would discuss your desire to serve with your Bishop and get his support. It's been my experience that finding people to serve in scouting-related callings is often difficult so your Bishop may respond favorably.

You may also wish to review the LDS Scouting handbooks.

jessestay wrote:In our Ward the leaders insist that the parents not be on he committee unless they are called.

Yes. If the bishop doesn't feel like you should be called as a cub scout leader or pack committee member, as a parent there are many ways you can help your cub scout aged sons to participate in and advance through cub scouts. Here are some examples.

Jbh001 that's perfect - thank you for sharing that.

Are you building a new program or taking over an already running program?

My wife, our primary president, suggests:

In addition to JD Lessely's post which is correct, and points you to the scouting handbook and CHI, remember to contact your local Scout district.
Ask them when their local "roundtable" training meeting is held locally. The local roundtable training meeting in each area (in utah) I've been in is a huge help, and will have seasoned scouters to help you get going. These are usually from all charters, not just LDS packs and troops. Attend these with all your leaders, and find out when your leaders can receive their required local training.

How it works in our ward:

chain of command:[INDENT]A counselor in the bishopric is oversees the cub scouts, then the
Primary presidency , who is over[INDENT]

• cub program and the
• 11 year old scouts.

[/INDENT](The president has charge of the 11 year old scouts (per CHI) and my wife assigned a counselor to oversee the Cub scouts.)

Cub Committee Chairperson, CubMaster, and assitant cubmaster.
These are the "glue" in our pack, and oversee's the whole program. These two positions are vital and will really help if they are experienced and energetic.
Denleaders, webelos leaders
[/INDENT]
The meetings:[INDENT]Cub committee meeting, monthly: Vital that all attend! The cub committee is made of the den leaders, the Cubmaster, the cub committee chair and the primary counselor. The bishopric counselor is invited. The primary president attends quarterly or as needed, but the counselor is there each month.

Roundtable meeting, monthly. A training and resource meeting held by the district scouting council.

Pack meetings, held monthly, with all boys, leaders, parents and siblings (it's all about the fun! The awards, the advancements! Goofy cheers!)
Den meetings, held weekly, except the week of pack meeting, often at the ward house or in a leaders home
[/INDENT]Budget:
If you have questions here, have your primary president consult with the stake primary president and your bishop. Your local scouting office will tell you what the typical den will cost, awards and camps, etc., and this can be obtained at roundtable. We have created a spreadsheet that calculates what we will need to budget each year that factors in day camp costs, awards, etc. I can email that to you if you send me a private message.

Although we are an LDS charter, all cub scout-aged kids in the neighborhood are encouraged to attend, and invited by primary president working closely with den leaders. These are funded by our ward as well.

Other:
Ask at your local roundtable for the other items: Blue and Gold, Pinewood derby, scout-o-rama, etc.

Combining: To get a "critical mass" of boys, we've combined our pack with two other adjacent wards. The committee chair and the cubmaster usually rotate through the three wards, with den leaders called from any ward. One ward is assigned to be the "agent" ward over the pack. The three primary presidents come to cub committee meeting quarterly, with the three bishopric counselors invited and they sometimes attend.

Something to be aware of is that the BSA recently revised its policy such that all registered adults need to complete the Youth Protection training. This can be done online after creating an account at www.myscouting.org

nutterb wrote:Something to be aware of is that the BSA recently revised its policy such that all registered adults need to complete the Youth Protection training. This can be done online after creating an account at [url=http://%3Cb%3Ewww.myscouting.org%3C/b%3E]www.myscouting.org[/url]

Just for clarification...
This policy is not new. The new part is that an adult leader is now required to complete the training before they can submit the application to register with the BSA (or be included in the recharter, if they have not been retrained within the past 2 years).

Greggo wrote:Just for clarification...
This policy is not new. The new part is that an adult leader is now required to complete the training before they can submit the application to register with the BSA (or be included in the recharter, if they have not been retrained within the past 2 years).

This is correct, and the effective date was June 1st. It means if you have not completed youth protection training, you cannot register as a new leader AND the unit cannot recharter you on an existing charter. This will catch some units by surprise, especially those who are rechartering right now.

The good news is that it does not take quite as long to do the refresher training as it did to do the original training. A record of your training is also stored at the national BSA site and is readily available if there are any questions.

If you are new, you do have to print out the completion certificate and attach it to your application, or your Scout office will no longer accept it. This applies to merit badge counselors, as well.