No Support for iOS 9.#?

Why do I need iOS 10+ to run the latest LDS Tools update and why will my old version of LDS Tools (3.3.1 on iOS 9.3.5) no longer sync since the 3.5 version has been released?

timothyjhill wrote:Why do I need iOS 10+ to run the latest LDS Tools update

At some point, Apple doesn't let you update apps for older versions. I'm not sure if that's the case here or not.

timothyjhill wrote:why will my old version of LDS Tools (3.3.1 on iOS 9.3.5) no longer sync since the 3.5 version has been released?

The servers that ran HT/VT where shutdown. New services were created to support Ministering using a higher level of security for communication.

The shutdown of HT/VT is likely what's causing the older versions of LDS Tools on iOS to fail.

Thanks Russell...is there any plan to support LDS Tools on iOS 9.3.5 or is the LDS Tools app simply caught in Apple's planned obsolescence and I have no other choice than to purchase a new device?

I haven't heard what the issue is, so I can't give a solid answer. But since it doesn't seem to be fixed by now, I wouldn't have a lot of hope.

It looks like by market share, iOS9 is only about 4.5% of iOS. The decision makers would have access to more detailed usage by members.

At minimum, I'd start watching the deals. I'm not much of a Apple watcher, but iOS9 looks to be getting long in the tooth. With the introduction of iOS12, I think "the end" will come sooner then later.

I just tried to download LDS Tools on 9.3.5, it indicated it couldn't download the current version and asked to continue loading an older version. Installation appeared successful, however when we tried to download the database we get the message: Downloading This may take a couple of minutes depending on your connection. The progress loop goes to around 98% complete and then just hangs there. I suspect the new downloads are not compatible with the older version of LDS Tools (Version 3.3.1 (6087).

Any hope for assistance?

Facing this exact problem. I would be good for the Church to clearly state in the release notes at least that 9.3.5 support for LDS Tools will no longer be available so people are not left spinning their wheels thinking, "If I do this one more time, it'll probably work". As you download LDS Tools from Apple Play, you do get a hint that it requires ver 10 or higher, but also implies that perhaps a previous version would be installed that would work on 9.3.5, but there is no way to verify such a plan is really available or ever will be. Church clarification is needed badly.

From what I've heard back, the church's commitment is to the current and prior version of iOS. At this point, that's iOS 10 and 11. If it works on 9, great, but no effort will be put into making it work.

Apparently, 9 doesn't support the newer APIs on security, so it's broken.

It would have been considerate if the Church would have warned 9.3.5 users that the latest release is not likely to work on their devices and made a way to still update the database even with missing features rather than ignore the situation and let users stumble into a dead device relative to LDS Tools. For sure, many LDS Tools developers knew in advance that most (if not all) 9.3.5 users would die with the latest update. As sad as that would be to such users, it's still better than allowing them to waste their time trying to make their device work.

mschmauch wrote:It would have been considerate if the Church would have warned 9.3.5 users that the latest release is not likely to work on their devices and made a way to still update the database even with missing features rather than ignore the situation and let users stumble into a dead device relative to LDS Tools.

I don't disagree, but my impression is that "the developers" is a small group of people. And in this case, they had a hard deadline to roll out the new version.

What broke the old version was turning off the old HT/VT service. The fact it didn't cope well was unfortunate, but I don't know as they had any tools at that point to fix the old version before rolling out the new one.

It's not too late to communicate the woes of 9.3.5 devices. I can't be the only one with the problem, and there are many who will not find this thread and are still yet hopeful that if they just carefully do it right, or get on a faster internet service, or pray more, they' will still get the new release to work. How sad for them on two levels: a dying device, and wasted time.

russellhltn wrote:

timothyjhill wrote:Why do I need iOS 10+ to run the latest LDS Tools update

At some point, Apple doesn't let you update apps for older versions. I'm not sure if that's the case here or n

I don't believe this to be the case here. The same thing has been happening on my iPhone 4s iOS 9.3.5 LDS tools version 3.3.1

However, LDS Tools works just fine when I just downloaded it from the app store (you have to have an apple ID that has downloaded the older versions in the past) and installed it on an

iPhone 3, iOS 4.2.1 LDS Tools ver. 2.0.3
iPod Touch Gen 4, iOS 6.1.6 LDS Tools ver 2.4.3

timothyjhill wrote:why will my old version of LDS Tools (3.3.1 on iOS 9.3.5) no longer sync since the 3.5 version has been released?

The servers that ran HT/VT where shutdown. New services were created to support Ministering using a higher level of security for communication.

The shutdown of HT/VT is likely what's causing the older versions of LDS Tools on iOS to fail.

This seems to be more likely since the other two versions that I checked that "work" did not have any Home Teaching or Visiting Teaching functions. I am told that the developers only support the current version and the one previous. Therefore only 3.5 and 3.4

My phone is perfectly fine for me and I don't feel like upgrading just to be able to use LDS Tools. It is a pain to have to use Safari and use Leader and Clerk resources everytime I want to look up an address or phone number. I'm not sure how long it would take to fix the problem in 3.3 but it seems foolish not to do so since there are indeed people who don't waste money of the latest version of the iPhone (you know, something the church seems to encourage, being thrifty and all).

cameronpeterson wrote:I am told that the developers only support the current version and the one previous. Therefore only 3.5 and 3.4

That is only the previous and current operating system versions -- iOS 11 and iOS 10.

cameronpeterson wrote:I'm not sure how long it would take to fix the problem in 3.3 but it seems foolish not to do so since there are indeed people who don't waste money of the latest version of the iPhone (you know, something the church seems to encourage, being thrifty and all).

Yes, and part of thrift at the church level is weighing the cost of employee's time (or at least the "lost opportunity" cost) against the number of people who would benefit. The product managers have access to information that tells them how many members are impacted.

Also, the church would have to justify to Apple why they switched to using depreciated (nearly obsolete) API calls instead of conforming to current practices.

On a side note, if I'm reading it right, the last update to iOS 9 for security was two years ago. Just because it still runs doesn't mean it's a good idea to do so.

I understand that there has to be a cost benefit analysis for work to be done. That's why I mentioned that I wasn't sure how easy (or hard) a fix this would be. I just wish there had been some warning so that I would have never tried uninstalling and then reinstalling the app. The other isssue is that it seems we are just guessing what the problems are and no information has been given as to what is really happening and if anyone has even looked at some sort of fix and if so how much time would it take. The only answer seems to be "we only support the last two iOS's" With that policy in place how do we know anyone has even explored the issue?

Assuming "fixing" the problems would take too long and are not a good investment of time vs. value then what about other options? For instance, would it be possible (and fairly easy) that instead of a phone with 9.3.5 downloading version 3.3.1 from the app store that it is changed so that it downloads the version just before the features were added that are now causing issues? I'm not sure if that is 3.2, 3.1 or earlier but I'll take even 2.4.3 (which I know still works) just so that I can look up peoples names and addresses in my ward. Or another possibility is just removing the feature completely in 3.3.1 that is causing the issue. Wouldn't that take much less time and therefore have a much, much lower cost vs. benefit?

I think people would just like to know that options have been considered and looked at.

Perhaps my security isn't up to date on my good ol' iPhone 4s but then again who would want anything from someone who uses one? I don't do banking, social media or even e-mail using my phone but it sure was nice for my calling to quickly be able to look up somones address or phone number without having to add the entire ward to my contacts. Maybe I'll need to start carrying an iPod touch as well just so I can have some access. I have over 50 of those so if that ends up being the only solution for others who have iPhone 4's feel free to contact me and I'll donate one to you so you can do your calling more effectively. (I'll just deduct the cost of them from my usual fast offering.... )

I'm kidding by the way on deducting the cost but I'm serious about donating one if it helps your calling.

cameronpeterson wrote:Assuming "fixing" the problems would take too long and are not a good investment of time vs. value then what about other options? For instance, would it be possible (and fairly easy) that instead of a phone with 9.3.5 downloading version 3.3.1 from the app store that it is changed so that it downloads the version just before the features were added that are now causing issues? I'm not sure if that is 3.2, 3.1 or earlier but I'll take even 2.4.3 (which I know still works) just so that I can look up peoples names and addresses in my ward. Or another possibility is just removing the feature completely in 3.3.1 that is causing the issue. Wouldn't that take much less time and therefore have a much, much lower cost vs. benefit?

Unfortunately, the App Store controls which version of the app can be downloaded on your device. It only allows a user to install the latest version of the app that supports your iOS version (for iOS 9, that's 3.3.1). Because of the way the App Store works, developers aren't able to specify which devices will get which version of the app, nor are they able to upload an update that will only go to old devices.

There seems to be two things going on here:

• The old app won't work with the HT/VT system shutdown (see other posts).
• The new app won't work on iOS9.

Given what sbradshaw has indicated above, at this point, the only way out is to re-do the new app to include iOS9.

I'm sure looking back there are things that could have been done differently to have a better outcome. But that would have required testing to see if the old app would still run without HT/VT (it doesn't), as well as finding out that the new app doesn't work on iOS9 and then coming up with a solution - such as a new version of the old app. But all of those options take time. And I'm suspecting that given the hard deadline handed down from above, time is what the developers didn't have.

And note that it's not just iOS. Android users with versions prior to 5 have been cut off due to the inability to support modern security standards on that OS.

sbradshaw wrote: Unfortunately, the App Store controls which version of the app can be downloaded on your device. It only allows a user to install the latest version of the app that supports your iOS version (for iOS 9, that's 3.3.1). Because of the way the App Store works, developers aren't able to specify which devices will get which version of the app, nor are they able to upload an update that will only go to old devices.

Thank you for everyones excellent explanations. I've become aware of the limitations of the app store in the last few months and it seems to be very frustrating. I can only hope that one of the several lawsuits against Apple regarding monopoly issues (and some others) succeed and provide better options.

So one last question. If it only allows a user to install the latest version of the app that supports your iOS version (for iOS 9, that's 3.3.1) but 3.3.1. doesn't really "support" iOS version 9 now, but lets say 3.1 does then wouldn't 3.1 now be the latest version that supports iOS 9 and by explaining that to Apple the change would be made because of their own policies and not because it's a developer choice?

I freely admit I don't really understand how the App store works and I guess there just isn't another place where I can get a version of 3.1 because no one wants to jeopardize ticking Apple off and getting removed from the App store right? I sure liked it better in the older days of the computer when you could make choices and choose what worked rather than having to accept whatever Apple decides to give you.

I miss LDS Tools on my phone. I'm not afraid to admit it. It was a very useful program and it helped make my calling of Elders quorum secretary easier. When you have a phone as slow as mine and with a short life battery, trying to work through Leader and Clerk resources takes soooooo much more time.

I'll lower my desk flag to half mast for a few days. RIP LDS Tools 3.3.1 We loved you little buddy.

I remember when the developers just did it as an open source project on their own time... those were the days.

peace and joy to you and all your families.

cameronpeterson wrote:If it only allows a user to install the latest version of the app that supports your iOS version (for iOS 9, that's 3.3.1) but 3.3.1. doesn't really "support" iOS version 9 now, but lets say 3.1 does then wouldn't 3.1 now be the latest version that supports iOS 9 and by explaining that to Apple the change would be made because of their own policies and not because it's a developer choice?

LDS Tools 3.3.1 still supports iOS9, but as this post indicates, 3.3.1 is confused by the change in church services and can no longer sync. I doubt if 3.1 would fair any better.

If 3.3.1 still worked (other than it couldn't get HT/VT/Ministering information), then perhaps the entry in the app store could be updated to indicate what version is appropriate for iOS9. But alas, it wouldn't do any good since 3.3.1 doesn't sync.

russellhltn wrote:There seems to be two things going on here:

• The old app won't work with the HT/VT system shutdown (see other posts).
• The new app won't work on iOS9.

Given what sbradshaw has indicated above, at this point, the only way out is to re-do the new app to include iOS9.

I'm sure looking back there are things that could have been done differently to have a better outcome. But that would have required testing to see if the old app would still run without HT/VT (it doesn't), as well as finding out that the new app doesn't work on iOS9 and then coming up with a solution - such as a new version of the old app. But all of those options take time. And I'm suspecting that given the hard deadline handed down from above, time is what the developers didn't have.

An alternative solution, besides updating the app to support iOS 9 and the latest ministering changes, would be to turn on the HT/VT service again, and have it send an empty set of results to any devices that try to connect. Hypothetically, it would behave as if a ward hadn't entered any home or visiting teaching data into Leader and Clerk Resources. I don't know if that would be feasible, either, not knowing the full constraints, but if there is time and budget, it may be an easier solution than updating the app.

sbradshaw wrote: An alternative solution, besides updating the app to support iOS 9 and the latest ministering changes, would be to turn on the HT/VT service again, and have it send an empty set of results to any devices that try to connect. Hypothetically, it would behave as if a ward hadn't entered any home or visiting teaching data into Leader and Clerk Resources. I don't know if that would be feasible, either, not knowing the full constraints, but if there is time and budget, it may be an easier solution than updating the app.

Awesome thinking outside the box. I love it.

I have been told that the developers will talk and see if there is a small fix to get it working. Thank you Devs for "leaving the 99 and helping the 1 for a short time." It's such a useful program to help me serve and be a better minister.

It's clear, the Church wants every one to by a new ipad if they want to use LDS Tools. Either that or they need to get new developers that can anticipate these issues. I assume there are a lot of ipads out there that can't upgrade to IOS 10. My guess is that it's not a small minority. Not impressed.

geysser wrote:It's clear, the Church wants every one to by a new ipad if they want to use LDS Tools. Either that or they need to get new developers that can anticipate these issues. I assume there are a lot of ipads out there that can't upgrade to IOS 10. My guess is that it's not a small minority. Not impressed.

Older ios and android software has security flaws that put member's privacy data at risk. The problem is not the church, it is Apple and Android who do not allow security updates for obsolete hardware. I'm pretty sure you would not be happy if your private data was compromised because the church allowed LDSTools on obsolete devices with known security flaws that the Apple and Android are unwilling to fix.

I have an older android device that can no longer get the latest LDSTools. Is it a bit inconvenient? Yes. Am I unhappy with the church about it? No. They made a decision to protect my privacy so I am grateful for their foresight.

We have recently dealt with the issue with the android 4G phone and tablet. A warning would have prevented us from going around in circles trying to figure it all out. I finally found this link and understand the issue.
I had a little laugh thinking about how things used to be; the Ward lists we hung tight to for example. It's a little like the government giving something and then they can't take it away.. So, I guess, until we can afford an upgrade on our phones or tablets we will just have to go back to paper. Fortunately, all the other good stuff like family search and the amazing Gospel Library still work for us..

Reading the Security issues for why Apple stopped supporting the chipset and stopped supporting these devices does not seem to be linked to the security of the LDS app its self - but more to do with accessing the ipad from locked screen and also web browsers....since the app is stand alone its a shame it is no longer compatible or basic functions like calendar are no longer accessable to individuals that cannot afford to stay up to date on these devices. Not that printing paper member lists is any more "secure". Its a shame the church like apple have not been more transparent about these things...looks like ill have one less member using these tools. Shame.