Why internet filtering can be a bad idea

Hi folks! I saw that other thread, and thought I'd share my experience with you guys.

Disclaimer: Everyone is different. What works great for one family may not be so great for another.

The problem: Kids surfing the web unprotected can stumble on icky stuff.

The worse problem: Kids may surf the web actively looking for icky stuff.

Given #1: Icky stuff is bad, harms spirituality, self esteem, respect, etc. Present and future happiness requires that it must be actively avoided.

Given #2: Especially for boys, hormones and curiosity lead to a desire to see icky stuff.

Given #3: The icky stuff is out there, and some of it will be seen at some point or another. There is no reasonable way to prevent this from happening.

Given #4: It is the responsibility of the parents to teach their children about free agency, choosing good or evil, temptation, self control, repentance, forgiveness, etc.

For my family, I wanted a solution that teaches my children to avoid the icky stuff. It must be esteemed as having no value. Scarcity of anything can lead to the perception that it has value, so I had to be very careful. I wanted to make sure that finding the icky stuff not turn into a challenge or a game! Rather, I wanted to teach my children to avoid it themselves, so that when they are elsewhere, out of my direct control, they won't be as tempted.

There are two parts to the solution:

The first part is a rule. All the kids know the rule. It's very simple. If they are using the computer, TV, or whatever, and they see something that is wrong, they have one and only one action, which must be done immediately: turn off the screen. If it's a computer, just turn off the monitor. Then come and tell mom or dad. Don't try to exit anything, just power off the display and come get us.

The second part is full visibility and accountability. I run a server at home that has two network cards in it. One connects to the internal LAN, to which the home computers are attached, and the other connects to the internet. This cheap little box (running the free debian linux) runs a transparent proxy (squid). It addition, it hosts my websites. The squid logs, which show all internet traffic, are automatically published to the website. Anytime, anyone can look at the logs, and see what websites were visited. Grandparents, friends, the bishop... whoever.

So far, we have not had any problems with accidental exposure, that I know of. It's become harder and harder to accidentally stumble on icky stuff in the past few years. We had one problem with some searches, which, due to the visibility, was quickly discovered, and led to a long talk, which was followed with what has so far been a long stretch of very good behavior.

We are on this earth to learn to choose the right. Preventing access to icky stuff has the downside that it may become perceived as desireable. I hope that the environment that I've set up teaches self-control and accountability. The icky stuff is out there, just a search away, but my goal is to prevent the search from happening, either in my network, or wherever else my children may find themselves.

I hope this is useful. --- Eric

Nice approach, Eric.

I get questions about filters pretty often, and usually end up not installing one. Normally, I just show the parents (not the kids) how easy it is to get around an internet filter and they decide that a more hands-on approach is a good idea. Relying on a piece of software to do our parenting for us is dangerous.

- Stephen

I have found using a filter is just a help to protect those that do not want to stumble into bad sites. Free agency is still there even with filtering if a person wants to find bad sites they are going to find what they want. I found that you must be proactive and post active by monitor what is happening on your connection to the internet. I would not be without the proctection of filters. I have tried several the best I have found is built into Home Vista.

There are four types of filtering that are possible/available:

1. Black List - Blocking known bad sites
2. White List - Only allow known good sites
3. Dynamic Filtering - filter content on known bad content, keywords and phrases
4. Personal filter/compass - personal knowledge of how to avoid and deal with trashy content.

It is true that the only filter that is portable into all situations is #4.

While it is possible to run without a filter and do okay, running without at least a basic filter is, IMHO, the equivalent of stocking your home with a full library of DVDs including all R and XXX porn titles but teaching your children not to touch them.

While it is true that any filter can be disabled or bypassed by a sufficiently technical user, people are foolish to have no filter at all on their home, work and personal computers.

Ads with phishing links and trashy ads do, and always will, exist on what are otherwise valid websites. This is true of almost all news and media websites as well as almost all wikipedia and educational type websites.

As for me and my house I prefer to keep the trash out as much as possible thank you. I block known bad sites at my routers and our computers run basic filters that log the traffic.

This is a personal choice but so are the movies we chose to keep in our home.

--Keith

Klarken wrote:Ads with phishing links and trashy ads do, and always will, exist on what are otherwise valid websites. This is true of almost all news and media websites as well as almost all wikipedia and educational type websites.

As for me and my house I prefer to keep the trash out as much as possible thank you. I block known bad sites at my routers and our computers run basic filters that log the traffic.
--Keith

Do you filter out the trash Ads on the valid websites ?

I ask because I had just read about some controversy of a large
ISP wanting to implement a "Times Square Effect" on any
advertising on websites their subscribers log into.

Basically, the "Times Sqaure Effect" is the substituting of advertisements
on websites. It is so called, because in any movie that films Times
Square in New York the Advertisements on any video screens or billboards
are now digitally modified to only carry the advertisements companies have paid to appear in the film.

The article I read about the ISP warns that by substituting ads in a large-scale way, the ISP is breaking the business model for many of the websites.

On a small-scale way, however, it would be nice to replace ads with something like "Enlarge your...Testimony, click here to go to lds.org"

- Atticus Ewig

I started off by having my router record the web history and then did a FHE on the whole subject with the aim to promote self-control and accountability. I think it did the trick as we havent had any problems.

I must admit I have since turned to having a web filter as I felt it was easier, had peace-of-mind and came with a few extra's.
I would normally have done the web-filter via the router but with the K9 web filter product I have come to LOVE their time-grid so the web goes OFF at set times with no argueing

dkjorgi wrote:...but with the K9 web filter product I have come to LOVE their time-grid so the web goes OFF at set times with no argueing

I think my Linksys router also has that ability built-in.

Let me be clear ...

I'm not opposed to using a filter - I'm opposed to the idea of installing a filter as a substitute for keeping your internet connection in a common area and using it responsibly. If you want to install a filter, and are willing to accept the fact that it doesn't and can't relieve you of your responsibility to keep your family safe, I'll be glad to help you out. I even have a favorite I'll recommend.

I wish people knew how easy and important it is to implement the solutions we're talking about - my ward is having it's second fireside in a month to discuss this topic and it is, quite honestly, a little depressing that we need two of them in so short a time.

- Stephen

scjayounger wrote:Let me be clear ...

I'm not opposed to using a filter - I'm opposed to the idea of installing a filter as a substitute for keeping your internet connection in a common area and using it responsibly. If you want to install a filter, and are willing to accept the fact that it doesn't and can't relieve you of your responsibility to keep your family safe, I'll be glad to help you out. I even have a favorite I'll recommend.

I wish people knew how easy and important it is to implement the solutions we're talking about - my ward is having it's second fireside in a month to discuss this topic and it is, quite honestly, a little depressing that we need two of them in so short a time.

- Stephen

Stephen,

I didnt get the impression anyone here is thinking of filtering as a substitute for their own responsibility but rather as a useful tool in addition so I assume you must be thinking of other people.

If you have any good tips that others can learn about to bring back to their own people then I think you should bring them out here. Lets hear your solutions, your personal favourites and bring up ways in which to protect against children bypassing your router filter.

if you are using slides for these two firesides then why not share those slides with the rest here. It can only start others to perfect your original ideas and thoughts and together we will come up with something that can be shared with more people.

dkjorgi wrote: I didnt get the impression anyone here is thinking of filtering as a substitute for their own responsibility

I didn't get that impression either, but that's a philosophy I encounter pretty often.

Usually, people call me too late - I get an earful of how their "teenager" (sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't) must have accidentally clicked on something and now their computer is acting funny and they keep getting popups inviting them to visit explicit websites. So, I clean up their computer and lecture them on the dangers of giving their "teenager" easy access to smut.

As far as filters go, I've had pretty good luck with K9 (bluecoat), but although it works for me, it has some quirks that some people find irritating.

If you have a problem in your home, and it just isn't practical (really?) to supervise, install a filter, restructure your bios so it doesn't boot to CD, and review your logs.

I'm not speaking at the fireside, but I think a collaborative effort at putting together an educational piece is a great idea. A little "groupthink" is a good way to catch the flaws in a plan.

And while my first visit is free - my second is not.

- Stephen

scjayounger wrote:As far as filters go, I've had pretty good luck with K9 (bluecoat), but although it works for me, it has some quirks that some people find irritating.

It would be really good if you can give us some examples so the rest of us can cater for that too when advicing people?

scjayounger wrote: If you have a problem in your home, and it just isn't practical (really?) to supervise, install a filter, restructure your bios so it doesn't boot to CD, and review your logs.

In families with several children requiring a computer to do their homework and church assignments as well as having some fun it is not always practical with just one PC in a main room where others are too (to allow for supervision) so that is where logs and filters come in to help a great deal as PC's are likely to be in bedrooms.

Good point about not allowing boot to CD which also brings up the point of passwording the bios.

If you have the ability of logs on your router then you could also save much of the above hassle by using another service like OpenDNS.com instead of installing the filter on the PC directly.

This has previous been discussed in the forum and anybody who havent seen that discussion might find it useful. You can find it HERE. One point I made here was to also beware of virtual images.

scjayounger wrote: I'm not speaking at the fireside, but I think a collaborative effort at putting together an educational piece is a great idea. A little "groupthink" is a good way to catch the flaws in a plan.

Maybe you can ask the person at the fireside for any slides or material they have prepared and share it with us. Having two firesides in a month must obviously have created a great deal of preparation work and no doubt more people could benefit from it.

scjayounger wrote: And while my first visit is free - my second is not.

- Stephen

I dont think I could get myself to charge members in need like that but I do think individuals must do their own work (based on the advice given) after visit no 1 as we dont all have unlimited time to give.

In similar situations I have found tools like logmein.com and mikogo.com to be invaluable to me as I help other people with their PC's. First one is great for regular login to same place and the other is great for the one off situations as well as other things.

I think it is important for us to remember that others will not have the knowledge and experience we have about computers and so these situations are great opportunities for us to share and help them which is why threads like this are great.

dkjorgi wrote:It would be really good if you can give us some examples so the rest of us can cater for that too when advicing people?

Actually, I meant to include a link, but forgot (it was very late) and now I can't find the forum. The thread you mentioned covers K9 and OpenDNS (which I haven't tried, but hear really good things about) pretty well.

dkjorgi wrote:... it is not always practical with just one PC in a main room where others are too ... as PC's are likely to be in bedrooms.

This is happening more and more, despite advice from the brethren to the contrary (M. Russell Ballard "Let Our Voices Be Heard" Ensign November 2003). I understand it isn't very practical (and it can create a considerable amount of strife in the home), so exploring other options is very important.

dkjorgi wrote: Maybe you can ask the person at the fireside for any slides or material they have prepared and share it with us.

I intend to. I meant it when I said a little "groupthink" might be helpful.

I agree that these threads are very useful, but would really love to see a wiki article that a layman could follow on setting up some basic but effective protection. I know we have to be careful to avoid appearing like any solution is sanctioned by the church, but I think about it often. Unfortunately, I'm not very good at writing those types of articles, so I wait ...

- Stephen

scjayounger wrote:I agree that these threads are very useful, but would really love to see a wiki article that a layman could follow on setting up some basic but effective protection. I know we have to be careful to avoid appearing like any solution is sanctioned by the church, but I think about it often. Unfortunately, I'm not very good at writing those types of articles, so I wait ...

If you think about it so much and go out so much to lecture parents then it would be useful to know of your PRACTICAL solutions. Dont worry about writing big articles as a list of things here would suffice.

I have to be honest Stephen, so far you have talked about and around these issues but I have not yet seen much in practical terms ie software to use or steps to take to project filters etc (apart from "not boot from CD").

We have mentioned K9, OpenDNS and other software and while you have commented on them we havent heard what software and solutions it is that you yourself are talking about so lets take it again:

scjayounger wrote:I even have a favorite I'll recommend.

Which one is it?

scjayounger wrote:I wish people knew how easy and important it is to implement the solutions we're talking about

Again, which solutions are we talking about?
And give us some details.

scjayounger wrote:my ward is having it's second fireside in a month to discuss this topic and it is, quite honestly, a little depressing that we need two of them in so short a time.

What was covered at the first fireside?

Why was it depressing you need another fireside?

scjayounger wrote:As far as filters go, I've had pretty good luck with K9 (bluecoat), but although it works for me, it has some quirks that some people find irritating.

Which quirks are we talking about? Are they relevant?

scjayounger wrote:This is happening more and more, despite advice from the brethren to the contrary (M. Russell Ballard "Let Our Voices Be Heard" Ensign November 2003). I understand it isn't very practical (and it can create a considerable amount of strife in the home), so exploring other options is very important.

I think Elder Ballards points has to be seen in its context.
Elder Ballard gave 7 examples of things that can help to minimise the effect the media has on the family rather than 7 "DO NOT's"
A PC in the bedroom was one of them. There is no doubt a PC in the bedroom has potential for danger but in the context of the challenges facing some with limited space and access for all together with responsible education and monitoring about usage can probably do more good.

To emphase my point that things cannot always be compared side-by-side you can take what you said yourself:

scjayounger wrote:I get questions about filters pretty often, and usually end up not installing one. Normally, I just show the parents (not the kids) how easy it is to get around an internet filter and they decide that a more hands-on approach is a good idea.

and then compare that with what Elder Ballard said in the point above the one you mentioned:

Elder Ballard: "We need to use Internet filters and TV programming locks to prevent our children from “chancing upon” things they should not see"

So we can see that rather than just adhearing to the immediate of what is said we need to think it deeper and apply and adjust the advice given to us for our circumstances and so I think it is equally with the advice about where to have the PC's. However what will work for some will not be the solution to others.

dkjorgi wrote:Elder Ballard: "We need to use Internet filters and TV programming locks to prevent our children from “chancing upon” things they should not see"

I'm 100% on board with this. In one of my prior wards the Bishop got up in a mixed RS/EQ/HP meeting and stated up front (proper or not) that between one-third to one-half of the priesthood holders in the room have a problem with pornography. That -- plus the General Authority coverage of pornography at nearly every conference -- is a pretty clear indication that not just the kids but the adults themselves need safeguards.

I won't go off topic, just to say that I disagree that all filtering is a bad idea. I agree that there are very bad implementations, but that doesn't mean the concept itself is bad. It just means we have to come up with a solution that can be made to match individual preferences, which I think is possible.

dkjorgi wrote: If you think about it so much and go out so much to lecture parents then it would be useful to know of your PRACTICAL solutions. Dont worry about writing big articles as a list of things here would suffice.

I have to be honest Stephen, so far you have talked about and around these issues but I have not yet seen much in practical terms ie software to use or steps to take

1) When I recommend a filter, I recommend K9 (I guess I didn't make that clear enough - I apologize). The quirks, in my opinion, aren't relevant.
2) I restructure the bios so you can't boot from a CD and teach them how to modify it should they need to do so in the future. I usually don't password protect it, but I teach them how.
3) I explain that most explicit content isn't 'chanced upon' and that it's dangerous, addictive stuff.
4) I invite them to have an open, frank, discussion as a family on the topic rather than adding to the aura of mystery we shroud it in by dancing around it.

This approach is a little simplistic, which is why I came here. I was hoping to learn something and made the mistake of stating a rather abbreviated opinion when I shouldn't have. Although it's a topic I feel is important, the intricacies of the solution are something I don't feel qualified to debate. I'm just a guy people used to call when their computers broke (not so much since I moved).

I'll come back when I have something more to contribute.

- Stephen

dkjorgi wrote:it would be useful to know of your PRACTICAL solutions. Dont worry about writing big articles as a list of things here would suffice.

When I recommend a filter, I recommend K9 - the quirks are irrelevant (in my opinion) - no 'fix' is perfect.

My other solutions tend to be simplistic (which is why I came here - I don't think of myself as an expert, just an ex-computer guy), and aren't anything new to what I've already seen on these forums.

I apologize for speaking out of turn. I didn't intend to offend, and hope you'll forgive my intrusion.

- Stephen

sterlingb wrote:I won't go off topic, just to say that I disagree that all filtering is a bad idea. I agree that there are very bad implementations, but that doesn't mean the concept itself is bad. It just means we have to come up with a solution that can be made to match individual preferences, which I think is possible.

I totally agree, spot on.

scjayounger wrote:When I recommend a filter, I recommend K9 - the quirks are irrelevant (in my opinion) - no 'fix' is perfect.

My other solutions tend to be simplistic (which is why I came here - I don't think of myself as an expert, just an ex-computer guy), and aren't anything new to what I've already seen on these forums.

I apologize for speaking out of turn. I didn't intend to offend, and hope you'll forgive my intrusion.

- Stephen

Stephen, there is room for everyone in here and your participation is most welcome and anything you can add (or learn from others) can only be a good thing.

Other people in the forum are also here to learn from each other which is why we are keen to hear what people have to say.

You have brought up some good points (need for wiki on such a relevant topic and tip about not to boot up CD) so we hope you will stay and participate as we can all learn from each other.

Thanks, I appreciate your patience. I wanted to take a moment and amend some of my earlier, less-thought-out remarks and realize that in the future I need to think more and talk less.

scjayounger wrote:... usually end up not installing [a filter]

- I think the concept of filtering is a good one. I&#8217]

scjayounger wrote:...restructure your bios so it doesn't boot to CD

- If you&#8217]

scjayounger wrote:... it doesn't and can't relieve you of your responsibility to keep your family safe

- I don&#8217]

scjayounger wrote:... keeping your internet connection in a common area

- My family can keep our computer in the living room because there aren&#8217]

scjayounger wrote:...second fireside in a month to discuss this topic

- I don&#8217]

Again, I'm sorry for not taking the time to articulate these opinions more carefully in the first place and I appreciate the advice you all give on this forum.

- Stephen

scjayounger wrote:I personally wish that the discussions were more frank. I remember being frustrated as a youth at the constant warnings about “necking and petting” without an explanation of what the adults were talking about and I see many pornography discussions the same way.

Boy, I've got to agree with this statement. Now that you have prompted me to look back on my youth attendance of such discussions, I find I had the same "what do those terms even mean?!" confusion. Because the nature of the discussion was so uncomfortable and vague, I didn't push the issue and somewhat discarded the caution with "yeah, yeah, don't look at girls..."

I jest, but in all seriousness, a frank discussion with no assumptions that the youth automatically know what you are talking about is the only way to be the most effective. I can guarantee you youth don't use the same phrases adults think of (like "necking and petting"), and often definitions will be required.

mkmurray wrote:I can guarantee you youth don't use the same phrases adults think of (like "necking and petting"), and often definitions will be required.

I realize this is a technology forum, and don't want to stray too far, but I have to say that this is the crux of the matter for me. Shortly after my wife and I moved into a new ward, we were asked to lead a discussion with the youth on morality with the specific request that we not 'beat around the bush.' It was awkward (especially the Q&A) but effective.

The prime use for filtering is to prevent accidental stumbling on icky stuff, IMO. I (as a 15 year old) could easily bypass anything my parents set up if I wanted to. Posting logs online publicly is an interesting idea, I believe using Tor would thwart it though.

I've been using the internet daily (pretty much) for at least 15 years now. The *only* time creepy stuff was on my computer turned out to by via the other adult in my home at that time. Teenagers who are generally behaving aren't a problem, per se. Creepy adults are. When my children have had assignments where I thought search terms had a probability of hitting bad sites, I searched in advance and fed them some terms on specific search engines that came up clean. And the creepy adult is long gone.

This discussion is very interesting. Web pornography affects our ward, as well as others in our stake. Also, some families I help with PC maintenance try to use filtering software, and I'm finally getting useful information I can share.

My current question is, can I stop using Spyware Blaster and Spybot for filtering/blocking if I use K9? Spybot should still have value as an occasional scanning tool.

I very much appreciate the collective knowledge being imparted, as well as the gospel perspectives.

JJ

jpjonesxyz wrote:My current question is, can I stop using Spyware Blaster and Spybot for filtering/blocking if I use K9? Spybot should still have value as an occasional scanning tool.

Spyware Blaster and Spybot Search and Destroy are not filters but rather anti-spyware and anti-malware software. Their function and behavior is different from a filter. Filters are designed to prevent access to certain websites or web pages. Anti-spyware and anti-malware programs try to prevent malicious software from infecting your computer. Sometimes the functionality of anti-malware programs utilize the capabilities of web browsers that block certain web sites and therefore appear to function as a filter. With that in mind you may want to keep an anti-malware program in addition to a web filter.

jdlessley wrote:Spyware Blaster and Spybot Search and Destroy are not filters but rather anti-spyware and anti-malware software.

But how does the real-time portion of it work? I think both of them tend to rely on black listed sites to block them or at least place them in the "restricted sites" category. But if K9 is updated fast enough, then by blocking access to those sites, then it would appear redundant.

I agree that Spybots scan function is still worthwhile, as is the "TeaTimer" that detects changes being made.

I'm not sure just how Spyware Blaster works.

RussellHltn wrote:I'm not sure just how Spyware Blaster works.

Spyware Blaster's main function blacklists all known malicious Active-X controls by by adding their CLSIDs to the registry key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\ActiveX Compatibility, then adding a dword value of "Compatibility Flags" with a hex value of 400. This is known as the "kill bit", as explained in this Microsoft Knowledge Base article. It can also block certain cookies and malicious websites in a similar fashion.

The nice thing is, it only has to be running to update the various blacklists. Once set, your machine is protected passively. Because of this, there is no reason to stop using it if you are also running something like K9.

Spybot S&D uses both active and passive filtering techniques and is also compatible with K9.

There is nothing wrong with overlapping layers of protection (think of an onion) as long as they don't contend with each other. For example, multiple software firewalls running will cause serious contentions and is considered a no-no. However, having a software firewall and a hardware firewall (usually your router) is not only acceptable, it's recommended.

I was using Spybot S8D and AdAware before I got K9 just after it came out. At that time I was getting some 70 suspicious bots and tracking cookies a week mostly from stuff viewed in webmail client ads. I installed K9 and that dropped that to about 20 a week, now it's zilch. That came after adding AVG Free to the mix.

One interesting feature I've heard about regarding K9 is its ability to block anything you might have picked up from 'phoning home' so to speak. That is, any malware still resident on your system that sends data back to the 'mothership' is prevented from doing so.

For phishing, there's an interesting site called Phishtank.net that is an aggregator for info on phishing sites, they have an API that others can build on to make very good antiphishing tools, and what appears to be the mother of all databases on suspicious websites, updated continuously as new ones are spotted.

I have used k9 in the past however the problem that I hear from people is that is slows down their computer. There is an Open Source Firewall/Web Filter system called Untangle.

Untangle is easy to install just download, burn it to a CD and install it on a old computer. It has a userfriendly dashboard which makes it easy for the non-computersavy user to use it. Hardware solutions provide the following advantages:

1. Frees up resources on desktops (Disk space, memory, CPU, etc)
2. Provides greater protection then just content filtration (ie Firewall, Spam Filter, Protocol Control, Spyware/Malware and Virus blocking)
3. Easy to deploy - you only need to install it on one computer and it protects the entire household.

I know that there are other solutions similar to Untangle out there this is the one that I have had success using.

I hadn't heard of Untangle before. I just read up on it, and it seems to have been received pretty well so far.

Each of the installation options look pretty straightforward ... I'd be interested in finding out what the pros/cons of each would be in a typical household environment.

- Stephen

marlattrj wrote:3. Easy to deploy - you only need to install it on one computer and it protects the entire household.

How does that work? Is it a computer with two NICs that's placed between the household and the Internet or does it act as a proxy and require you to configure all the clients to use it?

RussellHltn wrote:How does that work? Is it a computer with two NICs that's placed between the household and the Internet or does it act as a proxy and require you to configure all the clients to use it?

It appears the configuration is quite flexible. The most common is to use a dedicated box (PIII or better) with 2 NICs and configure it as a router or a bridge. You can also add a 3rd NIC for a DMZ. If you don't have a dedicated PC, you can install their Re-Router™ software on a non-dedicated box running Windows XP.

Once installed, there are add-ons (or "apps") you can activate or deactivate to suit your needs. The free version includes: Web Filter, Virus Blocker, Spam Blocker, Ad Blocker, Attack Blocker, Phish Blocker, Spyware Blocker, Firewall Routing & QoS, Intrusion Prevention, Protocol Control, OpenVPN, and Reports

There are also a whole list of commercial apps available for businesses on a subscription basis.

All in all, I'm very impressed with it. When I get a chance, I'm going to give it a full shake out. Thanks marlattrj.

[/font][/color]“Great works are performed, not by strength, but by perseverance.”

as my personal opinion it's not a bad idea at all. Specially for kids who are new to internet world. I would say every parent should set up filters to block un necessary or in appropriate websites to keep their children safe.

I love the idea of a public proxy log. A solid proxy will even show or block anonymizing services like TOR. You might not see what they are looking at, but you will be able to see that they are hiding something. A quick check of the browser cache should help confirm what is going on (empty or not!). If they are hiding something, that should be enough to have a chat w/ them.

You really don't care what your kids are looking at, you care about the choices they are making. Let them make the choices, and make them accountable for them.

A public proxy log also makes you accountable as well. It is a solution that will work for adults and kids. It shows your kids you expect the same of yourself.

I don't think the log needs to be public, but at least reviewable by more than one person. It also needs to be difficult to modify.

The Earl

My problem with the proxy solution is the difficulty.

Untangle is nice, but WAY to technical for most. Most of my family has needed my help to set up their plug-and-play wireless routers.

I think we need a packaged solution. Most families I know already use a consumer router with wireless for their internet. It would be really cool to have an OpenWRT spinoff that came pre-configured with a proxy, filter, and log page. All the pieces exist in the OpenWRT project, we would just need to package it.

A moderately technical person could install a standard router, and flash it with our custom firmware.

Thanks
The Earl

Hillshum wrote:The prime use for filtering is to prevent accidental stumbling on icky stuff, IMO. I (as a 15 year old) could easily bypass anything my parents set up if I wanted to. Posting logs online publicly is an interesting idea, I believe using Tor would thwart it though.

I agree. At minimum, I would recommend a "warning page" that says "the page you tried to access may contain <badstuff> enter your username and password to proceed". That does 2 things:
1. It makes people accountable for what they have done.
2. It protects you from the nasties of the web.

Personally, I am behind a Sonicall with filtering enabled at home and at work. Additionally, I use Firefox with Adblock Plus and NoScript. Between the three systems, I don't see most ads (good or bad).


Aaron Z