Witnessing MP ordinations

A young man in my ward was ordained an elder by his father yesterday. However, no witness from the stake presidency or high council was present. It is my understanding that the stake president gave verbal authorization for the father to ordain his son, so that may satisfy church guidelines and policies.

I would like to understand the current process. Without a paper trail and a stake witness, it may be more difficult for the stake clerk to track ordinations, record them, and print certificates.

In the past, the Melchizedek Priesthood Ordination Record provided a paper trail, including the signatures of the bishop, the stake president (or counselor), and the stake representative who witnessed the ordination. The printed form has been changed, and is only kept on file at the ward level, while the electronic form is sent to the stake for action.

"Complete this form when interviewing a male member to be ordained to an office in the Melchizedek Priesthood. The interviewing priesthood leader should use the questions on the lower half of this form. If the member is found worthy, submit the recommendation to the stake using LCR. The form should be kept on file until after the next membership audit."

I have reviewed Handbook 1 (16.7.1) and Handbook 2 (20.7.2), but neither states anything about a stake representative witnessing the ordination.

"The stake president (or someone under his direction) may ordain the person to the office of elder, or he may authorize another Melchizedek Priesthood holder to do so."

I only want to ensure that we are following the policies and procedures required by the stake as well as the handbooks.

drepouille wrote:A young man in my ward was ordained an elder by his father yesterday. However, no witness from the stake presidency or high council was present. It is my understanding that the stake president gave verbal authorization for the father to ordain his son, so that may satisfy church guidelines and policies.

Perhaps someone else was there, the bishop, a counselor, another priesthood leader, a clerk. They would then have the obligation to report to the stake the details of the ordination.

Others besides the stake presidency or a high councilor can represent the stake in certain instances. It is better when this is done by clear assignment. The important thing is that the ordination was performed properly and then recorded on the records of the Church, including the membership record of the individual who was ordained.

The father who performed the ordination is the second counselor in the bishopric. The bishop stayed home sick. I asked the father if anyone from the stake was there to witness the ordination, and he couldn't think of anyone. Sure, we had several members of our ward serving in stake callings who attended our ward yesterday, but none were there on assignment. All four high councilors who are members of our ward were elsewhere yesterday.

In a brief search, I'm not finding any requirement to have a witness other than if there is no valid record.

It would be an interesting discussion as to how it gets recorded if there are no witnesses. One could argue a "catch-22" situation where you need witnesses to record it.

We've had a similar problem lately with several families who blessed their new babies at home. I didn't worry very much about that, since blessing a baby is not a recorded saving ordinance. I only ask that the parents fill out the record creation form and sign it so I have the signed form in my files. I don't really care about the who what when where and why of the blessing.

I think it is clear from Handbook 2, 20.7.2 and the Melchizedek Priesthood Ordination Record (Stake) that a stake representative should be at all Melchizedek priesthood ordinations. This should be a member of the stake presidency or a stake high councilor.

For this case, if no witnesses, they should redo the ordinance. The same thing we would do for any ordinance where the record was lost and no witnesses.

falcon771 wrote:I think it is clear from Handbook 2, 20.7.2 and the Melchizedek Priesthood Ordination Record (Stake) that a stake representative should be at all Melchizedek priesthood ordinations.

Looking at 20.7.2 on-line, either the printed version is different or you must be interpreting it differently than I am. I see no such requirement, nor even the suggestion of such a requirement.

russellhltn wrote:Looking at 20.7.2 on-line, either the printed version is different or you must be interpreting it differently than I am. I see no such requirement, nor even the suggestion of such a requirement.

If you look at them together you might see a connection.

Handbook 2 says the stake clerk follows the instructions on the Melchizedek Priesthood Record form.

The Melchizedek Priesthood Record form says the assigned representative brings the form to the ordination.

Together I see that it is clear that a stake representative should be at all Melchizedek priesthood ordinations.

falcon771 wrote:Together I see that it is clear that a stake representative should be at all Melchizedek priesthood ordinations.

That representative is not necessarily a member of the stake presidency or high council. The stake may designate another person in the ward to oversee the ordination, although this would be unusual.

And if the ordination was performed properly and recorded on the membership record, there would not be any reason to do it again.