Simple Navigation Enhancements

First, I have to say that I love this site! What a fantastic idea.

This time around on my scripture reading, I've decided to try something new. Using the online scriptures, I play the audio and read the text at the same time. I've found this surprisingly effective--I'm learning new things and I think I'm retaining more (probably because of the involvement of multiple senses). So I'm very grateful the site is set up this way.

Using the scriptures this way has revealed a couple of possible navigation enhancements:

1) All chapters of a given book (e.g., Mosiah, Alma) contain Next and Previous links, except the first and last. But the first chapter contains only a Next link, and the last chapter contains only a Previous link. It would be helpful if all chapters contained both links--just this morning I wanted to go from the first chapter of Alma to the last chapter of Mosiah. And whenever I get to the end of one book, I want to go directly to the next one.

2) In order to reach my spot in the Book of Mormon each day, I have to drill down through four levels. I can think of a couple of different ways to redesign this--one might be using flyout menus (similar to the main navigation on lds.org). Or the current design could even be simplified: List each book, and directly under one one line (or two if necessary), put the links to all the chapters.

3) It would be nice if the audio player was embedded in the page rather than having to click to bring up the popup. As it is now, each time I open a new chapter, it's necessary to click the audio link again to re-open the player--otherwise, it keeps playing the previous chapter.

Last (and on a different topic), I just want to add a "ditto" to the requests to view different language versions side by side. Our ward works closely with a Spanish branch which also meets in our building, and I'd love to be able to see English and Spanish at the same time.

Thanks!

Kathryn

Thanks for the suggestions. I can see your need for these features based upon how you are currently using the online scriptures.

Tom

I had a suggestion on drilling down.

In Harold Stuart's Handy Scriptures for the palm, you just type out the book you want to go to, and it auto-completes as you go.

So if I type 2 Ne, it knows that's second Nephi and completes it, etc.

As for side-by-side languages, you can do that yourself without having to wait for the Church. Just build yourself a little web page and put them in side-by-side frames. Easy!

Look, I'll even do it for you, I'm so nice: http://www.geocities.com/sidebysidescriptures

There you go! Is that kind of what you wanted? It's a little messy at first if your screen is normal-sized, because of the lovely but ginormous pictures of the scriptures they have for you to look at on the top page (you can fix that by AdBlocking that image if you have Firefox and Adblock, or by an equivalent blocking manuever with your browser or choice), but once you click on something to start going to particular books and chapters, you'll see that it sizes itself very nicely to fit into the frames. Like this: http://www.geocities.com/sidebysidescri ... ephi1.html

I hope that helps your ward! I won't take it down or anything, and I made it at Geocities so the link can be considered permanent unless Yahoo goes bankrupt. Spread the link around if you think it would help anyone else.

Or just copy the code and put it on the host of your choice.

Perhaps a horizontal break might be better, as the adds are taking up a lot of the right vertical space.

Also, I'm sure without too much effort, the two frames could be synched to the same passages of scripture. Like you pick a default language on the left from a little drop down menu, pick a language on the right side, and then the right side follows whatever navigation happens on the left side.

I see no ads because I'm using Firefox. If you were using Firefox (and why aren't you?!:eek:), you too would see no ads there! So sorry for not taking that into account. It's easy to forget they're there.

Since it involves changing exactly 3 characters, here's one on the plan you prefer:

http://geocities.com/sidebysidescriptur ... below.html

If your ISP gives you free webspace, you could also copy the page's source (View > Source) and put up the same page ad-free at www.internetcompany.com/~mkmurray or whatever. But for Firefox users, it's already ad-free on Geocities.

" Also, I'm sure without too much effort, the two frames could be synched to the same passages of scripture."

Ah, but not-too-much effort is more than none. I went with the "none" option. You are absolutely right and it probably would take only an hour or two to make a really slick menu that would automatically make both frames come up at once, in whatever combo of languages the user wanted. So if someone wanted to, and to put their work in a better place than Geocities, that someone could of course feel free.

reachtheworld wrote: " Also, I'm sure without too much effort, the two frames could be synched to the same passages of scripture."

Ah, but not-too-much effort is more than none. I went with the "none" option. You are absolutely right and it probably would take only an hour or two to make a really slick menu that would automatically make both frames come up at once, in whatever combo of languages the user wanted. So if someone wanted to, and to put their work in a better place than Geocities, that someone could of course feel free.

This is great! I hadn't even thought about making my own page and pulling the scriptures into frames (or even iframes?). After looking at the horizontal version, the vertical one seems easier to use, at least for me. And I definitely would want them to stay in sync as I studied.

I won't have time to work on something any time soon, so if someone else does, please let us know!

Kathryn

reachtheworld wrote:As for side-by-side languages, you can do that yourself without having to wait for the Church. Just build yourself a little web page and put them in side-by-side frames. Easy!

Hey, I just thought of something the other day...would it violate any Church copyright or intellectual property policy to frame or otherwise incorporate the Internet version of the scriptures on a personal web site?

Kathryn

Kathryn wrote:Hey, I just thought of something the other day...would it violate any Church copyright or intellectual property policy to frame or otherwise incorporate the Internet version of the scriptures on a personal web site?

Kathryn

According to the "Rights and Use Information" link on the scriptures site, it says:

You may not post material from this site on another web site or on a computer network without our permission. You may not transmit or distribute material from this site to other sites.

I think what you want to do is to embed the actual web site into your web site using frames. Before you do that, I'd ask for permission.

Tom

One suggestion I would make is to have a direct link to the scriptures from the Ward and Stake websites so that it is easier to get to them directly when logged into the Ward websites. This would be a great feature and would make navigation of the site easier. I would assume that this would be easy to implement (i.e., adding a link) but I am not sure as I am not a tech person and do not know how the Ward websites are designed. Some of the suggestions I have read here sound good yet complicated and I am looking forward to the Church implementing some of them over time.

Edward Lalone

Kathryn wrote: 2) In order to reach my spot in the Book of Mormon each day, I have to drill down through four levels. I can think of a couple of different ways to redesign this--one might be using flyout menus (similar to the main navigation on lds.org). Or the current design could even be simplified: List each book, and directly under one one line (or two if necessary), put the links to all the chapters.
Kathryn

If each day's starting spot is the spot where you were studying at or near the end of the previous day's study, what would be wrong with setting a bookmark the previous day and then just going to the bookmark the next day? That would at least get the text version to the same chapter.

The unit admins can add links to the front page - as long as they go to church sites. I've added a link to the local temple, the local Institute of Religion, Gospel Library and LDS catalog. I noticed that someone has added "Serving in the Church".

RussellHltn wrote:The unit admins can add links to the front page - as long as they go to church sites. I've added a link to the local temple, the local Institute of Religion, Gospel Library and LDS catalog. I noticed that someone has added "Serving in the Church".

I am aware that links to the official church websites can be added but that isn't what I am suggesting needs to be done. I am suggesting that it be standard across the Stake and Ward sites to be able to navigate to the scriptures from the left-hand or top menu. If the Ward or Stake does provide a link on the main page than it is convenient if you scroll down and click on it but I have noticed that the majority of links listed mean nothing to me. For example there are links to mormon.org, lds.org, providentliving.org, josephsmith.net, and familysearch.org. While these are convenient to many to have on the Ward sites it really doesn't affect my internet navigation habits.

Even if there were a link to the scriptures among these it is unlikely that I would even click on it due to its location as I skip over the link sections of websites and tend to navigate to the menus and on sites I visit routinely I scroll the page where I know there are likely to be changes and skip over the rest. I could not tell you what links if any are on my Ward's site but I can tell you what is available on the left-hand and top menu and I can tell you what events are listed in the event's section of the site. Also, after checking the site again the links on my Ward's site are located at the bottom center of the page and this is an area that I will rarely scroll. Ironically, I use the site almost every day and yet I was not even aware of what links were provided and after looking at the links I can see why. It is just as easy for me to type mormon.org in the address bar than to scroll to the bottom of the page and this is true of typing in scriptures.lds.org too. I am far more likely to just type in the address before I waste time scrolling to the bottom of a page just to click on a link. With an embedded link to the scriptures as a part of the site it would be convenient to go directly to the scriptures from any part of the site. This is true of other parts of the Church's website. For example, while reading the Ensign online I cannot simply navigate to the scriptures and then back. Which should require only one click forward and then one click of the back button. I could easily scroll from the current Ensign to D&C 88:124 and back to the same Ensign article in a matter of two to three minutes where now I average 4 to 10 minutes. That doesn't sound like a lot of time when taken by itself but it literally adds up to hours of time spent navigating instead of time studying. I think it is really important that we can find the scriptures easily. A member or non-member should be able to get to the scriptures easily instead of through a myriad of navigations. Currently, unless you know what the URL is to the scriptures you cannot get to them except from the main page of the Church's site and I think that the Tech people need to seriously reconsider this.

This isn't a solution, but I think it could help...

Here is a link to a document posted not too long ago about the "schema" of Scripture URL's. It's pretty interesting and I like seeing it organized so logically. It would make creating links to certain passages easy to automate.

http://beta.tech.lds.org/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=79

Edward Lalone wrote:... For example, while reading the Ensign online I cannot simply navigate to the scriptures and then back. Which should require only one click forward and then one click of the back button. I could easily scroll from the current Ensign to D&C 88:124 and back to the same Ensign article in a matter of two to three minutes where now I average 4 to 10 minutes. That doesn't sound like a lot of time when taken by itself but it literally adds up to hours of time spent navigating instead of time studying. ...

Have you considered using tabbed browsing or multiple browser windows to help with toggling back and forth between the Ensign and the scriptures? If that worked for you, you could save a ton of time. Hope that helps.

rmrichesjr wrote:Have you considered using tabbed browsing or multiple browser windows to help with toggling back and forth between the Ensign and the scriptures? If that worked for you, you could save a ton of time. Hope that helps.

Yes, IE7 and FireFox have this capability. Just click a link with the scroll wheel and it's off and running in a new tab. And Ctrl+Tab will switch between tabs, much like Alt+Tab does between applications (Windows only?).

rmrichesjr wrote:Have you considered using tabbed browsing or multiple browser windows to help with toggling back and forth between the Ensign and the scriptures? If that worked for you, you could save a ton of time. Hope that helps.

I routinely use multiple tabs and windows when browsing the internet and it does not decrease the amount of time required. When I use my version of Internet Explorer I open tabs and when I don't have access to a new version of Internet Explorer I prefer to use Firefox because it allows me to use both tabs and windows. This does help to some extent by allowing me to open a new window but it still does not allow me to right click and to open a new tab from any part of the Church website and get to the scriptures instead I add an additional step by opening a new browser or tab and I would still have to type in the full URL. If I am doing a lot of this I will generally have already cut the address to the scriptures but it would be much easier if I could just click a link and go to the scriptures where I click it to open it in the same window, a new browser or a tab. Forunately for me I already use you suggestion about toggling back and forth.

mkmurray wrote:Yes, IE7 and FireFox have this capability. Just click a link with the scroll wheel and it's off and running in a new tab. And Ctrl+Tab will switch between tabs, much like Alt+Tab does between applications (Windows only?).

Because I can type so fast and am good at navigating the internet this extra step is not to bothersome but it does not decrease the amount of time I spend doing these tasks instead it increases the amount of time by how long it takes me to open a new window or tab and then type in the address. I even have my own start page with links to my favorites and a list of websites that I access and I keep it open at all times so I can tab between my personalized page while browsing. This helps by having ready links to the more frequent websites I visit yet it is interesting that I have to use my own website to navigate the Church's website especially when it comes to accessing the scriptures.

Edward Lalone wrote:Because I can type so fast and am good at navigating the internet this extra step is not to bothersome but it does not decrease the amount of time I spend doing these tasks instead it increases the amount of time by how long it takes me to open a new window or tab and then type in the address. I even have my own start page with links to my favorites and a list of websites that I access and I keep it open at all times so I can tab between my personalized page while browsing. This helps by having ready links to the more frequent websites I visit yet it is interesting that I have to use my own website to navigate the Church's website especially when it comes to accessing the scriptures.

I don't type links in for new tab or window; Middle click the link for open in new tab. Whalaa! Most times you can right click a link and open in new window too.