"Officers Sustained" form for Wards/Branches

While I know this may be insignificant, it does need to be brought to the attention of those who prepare the instructions posted on lds.org. The issue is the "Officers Sustained" form number in the English pdf file version of the "Ward, Branch, Stake & District Instructions" found at the "Instructions for Preparing the Annual History" page of lds.org does not agree with the form number available in MLS. The form number in the instructions for Wards and Branches is given as 32302 while the MLS form number is 37131. Since the MLS form has a date of 4/08 it appears to be the more correct.

jdlessley wrote:While I know this may be insignificant, it does need to be brought to the attention of those who prepare the instructions posted on lds.org. The issue is the "Officers Sustained" form number in the English pdf file version of the "Ward, Branch, Stake & District Instructions" found at the "Instructions for Preparing the Annual History" page of lds.org does not agree with the form number available in MLS. The form number in the instructions for Wards and Branches is given as 32302 while the MLS form number is 37131. Since the MLS form has a date of 4/08 it appears to be the more correct.

Those annual history instructions are from 3/01. In the meantime, there have been several changes to the Officers Sustained forms -- they have to change whenever there is any change to the First Presidency or Quorum of the Twelve. Since the Annual History instructions are relatively static, it is inevitable that the Officers Sustained forms will change multiple times between revisions of the Annual History. So any included form numbers are bound to be out of date.

In any case, there is a Feedback link on the Instructions for Preparing the Annual History page (it just sends mail to the standard MSRMail address), and it would probably be good for you to let them know, since I would guess that those in charge of maintaining the Annual History Instructions don't tend to monitor this forum.

While we're posting updates, we've just gone through ward conference and I've noticed that Elder Wirthlin is still listed on the sustainings as one of the 12. I haven't checked to see if MLS 2.9.3 takes care of that, as we haven't updated yet.

crislapi wrote:While we're posting updates, we've just gone through ward conference and I've noticed that Elder Wirthlin is still listed on the sustainings as one of the 12. I haven't checked to see if MLS 2.9.3 takes care of that, as we haven't updated yet.

MLS 2.9.3 (as of build 15035) still includes the older form (Form 37131, dated 4/08) so Elder Wirthlin is still listed. We instruct our ward clerks to simply cross out his name after they print the form.

crislapi wrote:I've noticed that Elder Wirthlin is still listed on the sustainings as one of the 12.

In the past, it seems to me that the form has been updated after the next general conference and a new member of the Quorum of the Twelve has been sustained. They know they will have to update the form again if they do it now and, as Alan said, the temporary fix is very easy.

I believe the counsel is that in Ward/Stake conferences, a recently deceased apostle should still be sustained as a member of the Quorum of the Twelve until a new Apostle is sustained, most likely in the next General Conference. The Stake President should make the decision as to whether or not a name should be read.

njcant1 wrote:I believe the counsel is that in Ward/Stake conferences, a recently deceased apostle should still be sustained as a member of the Quorum of the Twelve until a new Apostle is sustained, most likely in the next General Conference. The Stake President should make the decision as to whether or not a name should be read.

Interesting. I've never heard that, and it sounds quite counter-intuitive to me. Do you have a source for this?

Our Bishop said that last year for ward conference we were told to not use initials in names on sustaining list? He is not sure exactly. Our Ward Conference is this next Sunday so I need to let ward clerk know. Any help appreciated.

Al

showseason wrote:Our Bishop said that last year for ward conference we were told to not use initials in names on sustaining list? He is not sure exactly. Our Ward Conference is this next Sunday so I need to let ward clerk know. Any help appreciated.

Al

Not sure if it is Church policy or not, as I have never read it anywhere to not use initials. In fact if you look at the left side of the first page on a sustaining list you will see the First Presidency and the Apostles all use initials rather than their full given name. In our stake the Stake President has asked each ward to use initials rather than the full give name, perhaps trying to mirror what the sustaining list shows for the First Presidency etc.

For example: the Elders Quorum President's name may be John Randolph Smith. Our Stake President prefers the name read John R Smith. The only problem is the clerk who fills out the Sustaining List has to check the list and remove full middle names (or first names if someone goes by their middle name - such as L. Tom Perry of the Council of 12). Not a big issue, but to answer the comment above, I'm not sure if there is difinitive guidance or not on how to fill out the list.

Jim

Pilotfly wrote:Not sure if it is Church policy or not, . . .

The instructions at the top of the form say to use the "full name". So I would start with that, and then fix the form the way the presiding officer (stake president) would like to have it fixed.

In my previous residence outside the US, I was serving as the stake clerk. During one stake conference that was presided over by the area authority, he reviewed the sustaining list that I prepared and had me redo it to make sure that we used complete familiar names (i.e. Rodney instead of Rod), initials for those with more than one given name and the appropriate suffix, if applicable (this was just prior to implementation of MLS, and traditionally we only included first and last names).

I don't remember in this particular instance, but this general authority often quoted the brethren and particulary Pres. Packer on the correct "unwritten order of things." So, I'm sure this is the appropriate direction.

We have a Spanish Speaking Branch in our stake. Most of the members of that ward are bilingual, but a few are Spanish speaking only. Reading of the Ward Sustaining List causes problems every year. One of the members translates the English form while it is also being read in English. There is always a little confusion and a few translation errors.

If one form could be printed in English and another in Spanish, this would greatly simplify the process and cut down on errors.

Short of installing MLS in Spanish on a second computer (!) or a different directory, does anyone know how this can be accomplished?

aprayzr wrote:We have a Spanish Speaking Branch in our stake. Most of the members of that ward are bilingual, but a few are Spanish speaking only. Reading of the Ward Sustaining List causes problems every year. One of the members translates the English form while it is also being read in English. There is always a little confusion and a few translation errors.

If one form could be printed in English and another in Spanish, this would greatly simplify the process and cut down on errors.

Short of installing MLS in Spanish on a second computer (!) or a different directory, does anyone know how this can be accomplished?

You can run your existing MLS in a different language -- you don't need to install it in a different directory or computer (and that would create potential problems anyway).

The technique is described in this post.

Thanks for the help!

aprayzr wrote:Short of installing MLS in Spanish on a second computer (!) or a different directory, does anyone know how this can be accomplished?

From the MLS menu bar, navigate to Lists > Forms/Certificates > Print Form > set Language: to Spanish > select Sostenimiento de oficiales--Barrio de Estaca > click OK. You can probably figure out the rest from there.

jbh001 wrote:From the MLS menu bar, navigate to Lists > Forms/Certificates > Print Form > set Language: to Spanish > select Sostenimiento de oficiales--Barrio de Estaca > click OK. You can probably figure out the rest from there.

I guess I didn't notice when MLS added the language capability to the Print Forms screen. It wasn't there when the Print Forms screen was first added to MLS. But that's definitely the best way to do it -- much easier than changing the base language of MLS.

One little difference I noticed from the steps you gave -- when I change the language to Spanish, the names of the forms are still in English (the base language of my MLS installation). So I would choose Spanish, then select "Officers Sustained--Ward".

Alan_Brown wrote:One little difference I noticed from the steps you gave -- when I change the language to Spanish, the names of the forms are still in English (the base language of my MLS installation). So I would choose Spanish, then select "Officers Sustained--Ward".

Curious. When I do this using MLS 2.9.3, after I select Spanish, there is a slight pause, and then the list of forms repopulates in Spanish.

Odd that there is a difference in behavior. I wonder if this could be a difference between a patched update to MLS versus a clean install. I almost always try and to a clean install if can can before the patch gets pushed down from CHQ. Then again maybe that has nothing to do with the difference in behavior.

jbh001 wrote:Curious. When I do this using MLS 2.9.3, after I select Spanish, there is a slight pause, and then the list of forms repopulates in Spanish.

Odd that there is a difference in behavior. I wonder if this could be a difference between a patched update to MLS versus a clean install. I almost always try and to a clean install if can can before the patch gets pushed down from CHQ. Then again maybe that has nothing to do with the difference in behavior.

I did a clean install, so that doesn't account for any difference. And I am also using MLS 2.9.3, by the way. The difference is not a big deal, but it does pique one's curiosity.

I think we've stumbled on a programming bug that is fairly evident in the table below.
A "√" indicates the menu selection is in the native language and "Eng" indicates English.
See a pattern?

Alan_Brown wrote:-- when I change the language to Spanish, the names of the forms are still in English (the base language of my MLS installation). So I would choose Spanish, then select "Officers Sustained--Ward".

I have always had the same experience as jbh001. Once I select the Spanish language, the list of forms changes to Spanish. It is that way on all of the computers in our stake, which are running MLS 2.9.3.

Mikerowaved wrote:I think we've stumbled on a programming bug that is fairly evident in the table below.
A "√" indicates the menu selection is in the native language and "Eng" indicates English.

Code:

Language            Certificate         Form
========            ===========         ====
Chinese                  Eng             √ 
Danish                   Eng             √ 
Dutch                    Eng             √ 
English                  Eng            Eng
Finnish                  Eng             √ 
French                    √             Eng 
German                   Eng             √ 
Indonesian               Eng             √ 
Italian                  Eng             √ 
Japanese                 Eng             √ 
Korean                    √             Eng 
Norwegian                Eng             √ 
Portuguese               Eng             √ 
Samoan                   Eng             √ 
Spanish                   √             Eng 
Swedish                  Eng             √ 
Thai                     Eng             √ 
Tonga                     √             Eng

See a pattern?

You're right that there's a bug. The bug definitely follows a pattern, but it's not quite what you think. If you try to repeat the experiment, I think you'll see different results. Here's the actual pattern:

You see the list in the desired language in whichever screen (Form or Certificate) on which you first select that language. When you subsequently select that language on the other screen, you get English.

So if my theory is correct, you first showed the Certificate list for the languages of French, Korean, Spanish, and Tongan. You first showed the Form list for all the other languages.

The reason I couldn't see the Forms list in Spanish is that I had first seen the Spanish Certificate list. But jbh001 went first into the Forms list, so he saw that list in Spanish when he selected the Spanish language.

Alan_Brown wrote:You're right that there's a bug.

Alan_Brown wrote:You see the list in the desired language in whichever screen (Form or Certificate) on which you first select that language. When you subsequently select that language on the other screen, you get English.

Yup, you nailed it. That's exactly what's happening.

Alan_Brown wrote:You're right that there's a bug.

The reason I couldn't see the Forms list in Spanish is that I had first seen the Spanish Certificate list. But jbh001 went first into the Forms list, so he saw that list in Spanish when he selected the Spanish language.

This could actually be helpful (at least until the bug is fixed). If you select Spanish on the Certificate list, then go to the Forms list and select Spanish (but the list remains in English because of the bug), do you still get the Spanish form if you select it and print it?

This would help our Clerk who speaks not a word of Spanish and keeps returning with the wrong version of the list of officers sustained. If he could pick the list in English and still get it to print in Spanish, he would think he had died and gone to heaven. [grin]

lajackson wrote:This could actually be helpful (at least until the bug is fixed). If you select Spanish on the Certificate list, then go to the Forms list and select Spanish (but the list remains in English because of the bug), do you still get the Spanish form if you select it and print it?

This would help our Clerk who speaks not a word of Spanish and keeps returning with the wrong version of the list of officers sustained. If he could pick the list in English and still get it to print in Spanish, he would think he had died and gone to heaven. [grin]

Yes, the form does print out in the selected language. The bug only affects the display of the list of choices.

So if he wants to see the form choices in English, he should visit the Print Certificate list, select the Spanish language, cancel, and go over to the Print Form screen. When he then selects Spanish, he'll see the list in English, which will make it easier for him to pick the right form, but the form will print in Spanish.

Of course, I wouldn't get too attached to this behavior -- you'll probably lose it when the bug gets fixed. Although I would actually argue that MLS shouldn't change the language of the list in either case. If you are using the English version of MLS, the user interface should remain in English. It's very handy to be able to print a form or certificate in another language, but it's entirely possible the person doing the printing doesn't speak that language. It seems odd to assume that someone can speak English well enough to start MLS and navigate all the way to the list of forms or certificates, but then the list has to be translated in order for them to choose the right form.

Alan_Brown wrote:Yes, the form does print out in the selected language. The bug only affects the display of the list of choices.

Of course, I wouldn't get too attached to this behavior --

It seems odd to assume that someone can speak English well enough to start MLS and navigate all the way to the list of forms or certificates, but then the list has to be translated in order for them to choose the right form.

Yes. This caught me by surprise the first time I tried to print out the sustaining list in Spanish. I have since learned to recognize the words barrio and estaca. The current clerk is still working on it, though.

Alan_Brown wrote:Although I would actually argue that MLS shouldn't change the language of the list in either case. If you are using the English version of MLS, the user interface should remain in English. It's very handy to be able to print a form or certificate in another language, but it's entirely possible the person doing the printing doesn't speak that language. It seems odd to assume that someone can speak English well enough to start MLS and navigate all the way to the list of forms or certificates, but then the list has to be translated in order for them to choose the right form.

True, however, when the actual form is brought up, it will need to be filled in using the selected language, so IMO having the list in that language is kind of a "heads up" for what's coming next. For some languages, that means having the right character set installed too.

BTW, I just checked MLS 2.9.2 and it exhibits the same behavior.

Mikerowaved wrote:True, however, when the actual form is brought up, it will need to be filled in using the selected language, so IMO having the list in that language is kind of a "heads up" for what's coming next.

I would make the same argument for the next screen (the one where you fill in names) as well. In my opinion, the interface of MLS should be in a consistent language -- it makes little sense to me to change the language for a few screens. If the prompts for forms and certificates need to be in a different language, then all of MLS needs to be in that different language.

Alan_Brown wrote:I would make the same argument for the next screen (the one where you fill in names) as well. In my opinion, the interface of MLS should be in a consistent language -- it makes little sense to me to change the language for a few screens. If the prompts for forms and certificates need to be in a different language, then all of MLS needs to be in that different language.

There are pros and cons for both ways. I like the "heads up" feature of having the language change, but if I then didn't know that language I would likely get lost in filling out the form. I think a better solution might be to populate the list in the base language, but then add the target language in parentheses afterward.

For example, if the base language was English you would see "Officers Sustained -- Ward" as a form to select. If you then set the language to Spanish, then that option would repopulate as "Officers Sustained -- Ward (Spanish)" or maybe even "Sostenimiento de oficiales--Barrio de Estaca (Officers Sustained -- Ward)." This would provide a sort of "heads up" while at the same time letting you complete the form in English.

However, I disagree that MLS should be forced to stick to one language. Being able to switch to a different language on the fly can be useful in a variety of situations, one of which was discussed below.

http://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.ph ... #post20284

I foresee that scenario becoming more and more common, even within the United States. In our stake we have a Spanish branch and a Marshallese branch. It would be so convenient for stake auditors to be able to switch MLS on the fly between English, Spanish, and Marshallese when supporting/training these units.

jbh001 wrote:For example, if the base language was English you would see "Officers Sustained -- Ward" as a form to select. If you then set the language to Spanish, then that option would repopulate as "Officers Sustained -- Ward (Spanish)" or maybe even "Sostenimiento de oficiales--Barrio de Estaca (Officers Sustained -- Ward)." This would provide a sort of "heads up" while at the same time letting you complete the form in English.

I think that's a good idea.

jbh001 wrote:However, I disagree that MLS should be forced to stick to one language. Being able to switch to a different language on the fly can be useful in a variety of situations, one of which was discussed below.

I never said that MLS should stick to one language. I completely agree that it's useful to switch languages, and I think it should be easier to do it on the fly.

What I said was that when MLS is operating in a certain base language, it shouldn't display certain screens in a different language. If you are operating MLS in English, all prompts should be in English, even if you are filling out a Korean certificate. If you are operating MLS in Korean, all prompts should be in Korean, even if you are filling out an English certificate.