Sitting with family after sacrament

I have been sitting on the clerks stand for the entire meeting since I was called. My father who has been a ward clerk told me that he returns to sit with his family after the sacrament is passed and he has taken the count of members attending sacrament meeting. He said this was in a directive from the church he thought. Does anyone else do this? I would rather do this as I have six boys and my wife could use the help.

In none of the wards I have belonged to the past dozen years has the clerk sat on the stand at all. I notice that the clerk does sit there in my father's ward, but I don't recall whether it is for the whole meeting. I have just assumed it was all a matter of local custom.

I never sat on the stand as a clerk. To my knowledge there is no church policy or directive in the Handbook that says a clerk has to sit on the stand. What is important is that as a Clerk you take the attendance numbers and data that is needed for your calling. Whether that is done sitting on the stand, sitting at a bench or standing up and walking around, I think that is up to you. My $0.02.

We received a bulletin making this change a number of years back, I know that those bulletins are supposed to be available online but I can't find them.

vaugdavi wrote:I have been sitting on the clerks stand for the entire meeting since I was called.

New meetinghouses being built do not have a clerk's table on the stand.

Our clerk sits with his family and does the count either at the beginning of the first talk or during the closing hymn.

KevinAnderson wrote:We received a bulletin making this change a number of years back, I know that those bulletins are supposed to be available online but I can't find them.

The stake/district president (and no one else) has access to the Official Communications Library (OCL).

However, note that many official communications sent prior to 2006 were superseded by the 2006 edition of the Church Handbook of Instructions (CHI). Because of that, many old notices were deleted from the OCL, and priesthood leaders were instructed to destroy the old notices. (Also note that the term "bulletin" has not been used in this context for many years .)

So on this topic, look to the CHI. If the issue is not explicitly addressed (and I don't think it is), then local priesthood leaders determine the practice.

opee wrote:I never sat on the stand as a clerk. To my knowledge there is no church policy or directive in the Handbook that says a clerk has to sit on the stand. What is important is that as a Clerk you take the attendance numbers and data that is needed for your calling. Whether that is done sitting on the stand, sitting at a bench or standing up and walking around, I think that is up to you. My $0.02.

This is what we have done here in Vicenza, Italy from the beginning (1975).

Utah, Toronto Canada Area, Kansas City, at least 15 different stakes, and at least as many wards and I haven't seen clerks sitting on the stand in over 20 years, this seems a very outdated practice.

I doubt that this was a church-wide directive since there are so many different chapel configurations, even within Utah. This was more likely a directive from the stake or area presidency in an attempt to increase reverence in the meeting.

Personally, since our current meetinghouse has no designated "space" on the rostrum for the clerk to sit, I would sit in the choir seats for a good vantage point until after the sacrament was passed. When the priests left the sacrament table, I would go with them and complete the count as discretely as possible, and then return and sit with my family to help my wife manage our children.

Other ward clerks simply sit in the congregation until after the sacrament is completed, and then get up and do the count as unobtrusively as possible, and then return to their seats. It's not hard to guess what they are doing since they are carrying around a clipboard during the process.

In my home stake, the ward clerk sits on the stand in all wards since the beginning in 1960s, in all of our wards. We don't have tables for clerks in our meetinghouses after renovations and reconfigurations in the past years. I always sit after the bishop, as an assistant during the meetings to send messages that can be important, check the attendance, and help with other things (like ventilators, light or audio problems).

In answer to vaugdavi's question

I have been sitting on the clerks stand for the entire meeting since I was called. My father who has been a ward clerk told me that he returns to sit with his family after the sacrament is passed and he has taken the count of members attending sacrament meeting. He said this was in a directive from the church he thought. Does anyone else do this? I would rather do this as I have six boys and my wife could use the help.

The practice of sitting up on the stand comes from the old directive of taking minutes in sacrament meeting. These minutes were at one time sent to the Church History Department. This practive was discontinued at least two decades ago, but old buildings remain that still have a place for the ward clerk to sit and take his notes. Those built since do not have this place because it is no longer needed. Now, having said this, I would imagine it is up to the bishop if he wants the clerk to take minutes for local use. Perhaps you could ask him why you are sitting up there since it is no longer required to take minutes.

smithgw wrote:In answer to vaugdavi's question
The practice of sitting up on the stand comes from the old directive of taking minutes in sacrament meeting. These minutes were at one time sent to the Church History Department. This practice was discontinued at least two decades ago, but old buildings remain that still have a place for the ward clerk to sit and take his notes. Those built since do not have this place because it is no longer needed. Now, having said this, I would imagine it is up to the bishop if he wants the clerk to take minutes for local use. Perhaps you could ask him why you are sitting up there since it is no longer required to take minutes.

I am a new ward clerk...about 5 months of service. Our Bishop does not require that I sit at the clerks desk (we have an old configuration that has a built in clerks desk). I still takes minutes including names of those that give testimonies. I am not sure what use this information has as I just file it away. I don't know of any reporting requirements for these weekly Sacrament meeting minutes. From your reply it appears that I should be asking the Bishop whether or not these minutes are needed. Is this correct?

cdawardclerk wrote:I am a new ward clerk...about 5 months of service. Our Bishop does not require that I sit at the clerks desk (we have an old configuration that has a built in clerks desk). I still takes minutes including names of those that give testimonies. I am not sure what use this information has as I just file it away. I don't know of any reporting requirements for these weekly Sacrament meeting minutes. From your reply it appears that I should be asking the Bishop whether or not these minutes are needed. Is this correct?

It's a good idea to periodically reconsider all reports, minutes, etc. that are generated at any level to see if they are truly well-used and serving a useful purpose. It's easy to continue doing things because "we've always done it that way," but that's not a good reason.

For example, what purpose is served by recording names of those who bear testimonies? If no one ever refers to that list, I would think the practice should be discontinued. Only minutes that lead to follow-up of some sort make sense to even write down, let alone archive somewhere.

We've seen several examples at the Church level where former practices have been simplified or eliminated. It appears that the Church regularly reviews its practices and makes adjustments, and I would think that wards and stakes would be wise to do the same.

I agree with you, Alan_Brown. I always recorded some information as a clerk for our ward. Some information go to trash after three, five or ten years... We need a way to know what is important for record, the time for recording and a way to record (in units, in Church Archives, etc.)...

cdawardclerk wrote:I should be asking the Bishop whether or not these minutes are needed. Is this correct?

It is a good suggestion. The bishop will be the one who will decide if and how the minutes are used.

Some bishoprics like to keep track of who spoke and prayed so that the same members are not called upon every time. Some bishoprics just want to know how many folks attended sacrament meeting. Each bishop is different.

Stake presidents are the same way. Some want the information in the quarterly report and do not need anything further. Others request detailed reports that give the bishop an opportunity to have an extra assistant ward clerk or two called. Each stake president is different.

I do a number of data queries each month for folks at work. Today, the new year having arrived and along with the results of the queries, I sent out a little note asking each recipient if they still needed the report. Quite a few "requirements" went away. [grin]

lajackson points out some good suggestions on why a bishop may wish to have the names of those who bore their testimonies. I have another to offer.

Some time ago, when I was the ward clerk, I always struggled with what to include in the ward's historical record (we didn't have a ward historian). One thing that I did was request those who bore their testimonies (usually by email) to summarize their testimories for the historical record. These made a good addtion.

I don't think our meetinghouses are even built with a clerk area anymore. And you can't see the entire congregation from any single point on the stand.

When first called as ward clerk a number of years ago, all clerks in the Stake sat on the stand during Sacrament Meeting. About 3 years ago, after Ward Conference, our Stake President instructed us to discontinue the practice.

My membership clerk keeps notes of Sacrament meeting and files them in a binder. Monthly, I do a custom query in MLS to generate one spreadsheet of adults and another of youth (12-18) and list the last date they spoke from our minutes (I edit the exported data in Open Office). The Bishopric use those lists to make sure they are considering all members for speaking assignments (our youth can't figure out how the Bishopric knows whether or not they have talked recently ).

When the Minutes binder gets full, we shred some of the oldest ones but that goes back a couple of years so the recent information is available for the annual Ward History. We do occasionally refer back several months so having this information has been helpful.

boomerbubba wrote:In none of the wards I have belonged to the past dozen years has the clerk sat on the stand at all. I notice that the clerk does sit there in my father's ward, but I don't recall whether it is for the whole meeting. I have just assumed it was all a matter of local custom.

I don't ever sit on the stand as ward clerk...It's no longer our custom. I'm not even sure you can say its right our wrong, only that it is "local custom" as boomerbubba said, to do it or not.

At a stake conference in 2006, our visiting General Authority said that ward clerks should sit on the stand at sacrament meeting, and stake clerks at stake conference. That is what we have more or less done since (even in chapels that don't have a clerk's desk) but I'd still feel more comfortable seeing something in writing.

JTaber wrote:At a stake conference in 2006, our visiting General Authority said that ward clerks should sit on the stand at sacrament meeting, and stake clerks at stake conference. That is what we have more or less done since (even in chapels that don't have a clerk's desk) but I'd still feel more comfortable seeing something in writing.

Stakes I have served in have received directives (like "Sacrament meeting invocation must be said by a Melchizedek Priesthood holder") from General Authorities and even one Apostle during their visits. These directives were not related to doctrine and were discontinued after a call from the Stake President to CHQ.

If it's not in the CHI, then it's probably not an official policy, unless the Stake Presidency says it is.