stake counselors presiding in ward meetings.

A question has come up that we don't quite know the answer to.

A stake counselor would like to attend his home ward but doesn't know if its appropriate to always sit up on the stand and preside over the meeting when he would rather allow the bishop to exercise priesthood keys he was given. we are under 2 differing opinions. 1. He is to preside over the meeting and sit on the stand 2. He only sits on the stand only if given an assignment.

we've searched throughout handbook 1 and 2 and still cannot interpret correctly.

IMHO, he should sit on the stand when he visits his home ward.

Policy is found in the first paragraph of Handbook 2, 18.2. The way I interpret it is, first, that the stake presidency member always presides when he visits a sacrament meeting, and second, that he should be invited to sit on the stand – doesn't have to sit on the stand, but presides either way.

Presiding means that 1) he should be recognized as attending, and 2) if he wants to adjust the program or come to the podium to clarify something that a speaker says, he is able to (which would be harder to do, but not impossible, if he's not on the stand).

I was thinking that the sacrament would need be given to him first (which would be more difficult if he's not on the stand), but I can't find that directive in the Handbook so it may just be tradition from earlier policy!

I've heard stories of general authorities coming to a sacrament meeting and just sitting in the audience – on a rare occasion when they don't have an assignment, or if they arrive after the meeting's started.

sbradshaw wrote:I was thinking that the sacrament would need be given to him first (which would be more difficult if he's not on the stand), but I can't find that directive in the Handbook so it may just be tradition from earlier policy!

Handbook 2 section 20.4.3 (4th paragraph)

sbradshaw wrote:I was thinking that the sacrament would need be given to him first (which would be more difficult if he's not on the stand), but I can't find that directive in the Handbook so it may just be tradition from earlier policy!

Handbook 2, 20.4.3: "The presiding officer receives the sacrament first. The bishop (or a counselor in his absence) presides at the sacrament meeting unless a member of the stake presidency, an Area Seventy, or a General Authority is sitting on the stand."

A member of the stake presidency presides in any sacrament meeting he attends (within his own stake). He should sit on the stand. As the presiding officer, he is first to receive the sacrament. As the presiding officer, he is responsible for the outcome of the meeting. As has been pointed out, and as Elder Boyd K. Packer and many other general authorities have taught, it is difficult to preside from somewhere else in the chapel.

Recognizing that my home ward bishop and his counselors worked hard to plan and conduct a sacrament meeting that would edify and uplift the members of the ward, I allowed them to do just that. As I sat on the stand, the member of the bishopric would hand me a program (if I didn't already have one from the greeters). If I noticed anything irregular about the agenda, I would quietly mention it, but we trained our bishoprics well and that rarely happened.

At that same time, I would let the person conducting know if I wished to take any time during the meeting. Usually I did not, but there were some special times when two or three minutes allowed me to share something that would bless our ward.

And then there were the occasions when the scheduled speakers ended early. At first, the bishopric turned to me and expected me to fill the time. We resolved that very quickly. Sometimes I would, but other times I would point back to the bishopric and one of them got to do it. And sometimes I opened my hymnbook, which was their signal to conclude the meeting a few minutes early with a hymn and a prayer.

Sometimes I would go weeks without attending my own ward. Sometimes I would be there two weeks in a row. It averaged about once a month. The bishop got plenty of time to preside on his own. At the same time, the ward received the blessings that come from having stake leaders among their own.

It was a wonderful experience.

Our Stake President is also a member of our ward. Unless he is there on Stake business he usually sits in the congregation with his family and takes no active part in the program unless invited by the presiding officer. This might just be a local custom.

A presiding officer holds the keys. It means he has the right to choose as directed by the spirit. He is free to choose as the Spirit dictates. The Lord trusts them enough to leave it up to then.

What if he brought someone to church and wanted to sit with them. Nephi had to slay Laban.

Simple is better than complex,
But complex is better than complicated.
_The Zen of Python-

BrentFiegle wrote:Simple is better than complex,
But complex is better than complicated.
_The Zen of Python-

Stake Presidency members preside over the whole Stake.
They can go to every unit (even their own) and, as presiding authority give a look at the program, approve it and ask bishops to preside (delegate).
Simple and clear.

I was in a ward that was home to an area authority. He was instructed to always sit on the stand even when he attended his own ward.

An area authority doesn't preside unless assigned by a member of the twelve. Technically the 70 ask must be assigned to preside, so sitting in the audience is correct for area and general 70

johnshaw wrote:An area authority doesn't preside unless assigned by a member of the twelve. Technically the 70 ask must be assigned to preside, so sitting in the audience is correct for area and general 70

We were taught by a member of the Presidency of the Seventy that an Area Seventy presides anywhere within the area where he lives and that he can also be assigned to a stake conference outside of his area, where he will preside at that conference by assignment from the President of the Quorum of the Twelve.

We were also taught that a General Authority Seventy presides anywhere in the world when an apostle is not present.

eblood66 wrote:

sbradshaw wrote:I was thinking that the sacrament would need be given to him first (which would be more difficult if he's not on the stand), but I can't find that directive in the Handbook so it may just be tradition from earlier policy!

Handbook 2 section 20.4.3 (4th paragraph)

Counselors to priesthood leaders do not receive keys. They are set apart and function in their callings by assignment and delegated authority. All ward and stake auxiliary organizations operate under the direction of the bishop or stake president, who holds the keys to preside. Auxiliary presidents and their counselors do not receive keys. They receive delegated authority to function in their callings.

To preside, a stake counselor has to be delegated ( not just visit in vacation an to preside by default over the bishop or the branch president ). It is about the keys that he not have, but he could receive them from the stake president.

Wow! After all has been said;
Where i come from, the Presiding officer must(or may for your opinion) sit on the stand each time he attends that particular unit.
But, like many here have said, i have seen my Stake President sit in the congregation for reasons that i feel are only known to him.
President Packer, in his talk titled The unwritten order of things, counseled; that sometimes in the Church we are to learn by experience and observation, even those things that we may think are not written in our Handbooks or scriptures for that matter. And in this case, i have always observed that each time an Area or General Authority attends a unit, he automatically presides, hence is seated on the stand. The rest, perhaps Agency kicks in.

I have an example of where an area seventy had to preside at a stake conference outside his area.

In January 2008 Elder Richard G. Hinckley was assigned to preside at a stake conference in Las Vegas. That was the weekend President Hinckley was deteriorating and he would be gone the next night. So he had to leave Las Vegas and get back to Salt Lake. They found that an area seventy had a weekend off so they asked him to go to Las Vegas. Was not hard, the area seventy lived in St. George. He finished up the conference Sunday sessions.

A very interesting story is told of that meeting, the area seventy related some things and a family in back realized the story might help them as they had a daughter who had some pain in the lower abdomen, they realized that they should see a doctor right away. The doctor diagnosed appendicitis, and they were able to get that resolved, it is possible had that area seventy not gone the outcome might have been different.

JamesAnderson wrote:I have an example of where an area seventy had to preside at a stake conference outside his area.

An area seventy always presides within his own area (assuming no higher authority is present). But an area seventy may also be assigned to preside at any stake conference or meeting by direction from the Quorum of the Twelve.

General Authority Seventies are called to serve as special witnesses of Jesus Christ, they represent the quorum of the twelve apostles and it is my opinion that if they are called " General Authorities" that means they preside anywhere they go if there is not a higher authority present.

The area authority that was in our ward was told directly by an apostle that he was to sit on the stand and preside unless a general authority was present. He attended the ward and would sit on the stand about once a month but always stayed away from our stake conference, he was most likely on assignment in another stake anyway. He has since been released and sent on a mission.

I take it if the stake president attends and his counsellor is also in the ward then only the stake president sits on the stand

I’m not sure if his instruction came from the twelve or the area President (as a representative of the twelve). He always sat on the stand and got the sacrament first in the ward. He would not come to his home stake conference unless assigned because he had previously been the stake president and was either on assignment elsewhere or didn’t want to take focus away from the current president.

The handbook states it like this as to who presides at a sacrement meeting.

29.2.1.2

Presiding at Sacrament Meeting
The bishop presides at sacrament meeting unless a member of the stake presidency, an Area Seventy in his area, or a General Authority attends.

The Twelve do not assign the 70 when to preside at a sacrement meeting - they only direct attendance at stake conferences or other similar conferences like a PLC where they are assigned by the Twelve.

If an Area Seventy comes to any sacrement meeting- even on vacation- that is located within his area- he will preside at the meeting and sits on the stand. The only possible exception is that the area presidency can give permission for them to sit with their family when they are assigned home and attend their home ward.

Since this thread remains active, I'll add my perspective that while the current Handbook does state the presiding authority (and visiting high councilors) should be invited to sit on the stand, there's no definitive language regarding the process for deciding when that might not be applicable. No specifics about who makes the decision, or who needs to ask who for permission. Seems to me that the presiding authority has discretion to make the decision about whether to sit on the stand -- obviously that should be the default, but to me it does allow for wiggle room if circumstances dictate the presiding authority be seated in the congregation on a particular Sunday.

And the other concerns about the effectiveness of presiding from the congregation as opposed to from the pulpit, remain valid. Regardless, he should always receive the sacrament first -- and while quite uncommon, there's nothing wrong with the priesthood holder passing the tray to that presiding authority in the congregation first, before others receive the emblems.

Perhaps I've missed something in the Handbook, if so I'm sure somebody will point it out