"Other" Category

Will additions be made to the "other" category? Several missionaries in are stake are users of missionary mobile devices. They were instructed to fill out "Other - Missionary Mobile Device" on the donation slip for their mission.

I sent in a feedback request to create a textbox in the 'Other' category. There is no way that the church could keep up with all the various uses for that category. I had to use it Sunday to order a commemorative book for the temple dedication in Indianapolis: we don't need some poor guy in Salt Lake adding that and all the other ways we use the category to the drop down. My suggestion was to then have a report to show all donations 'Other'>0 AND 'TextBox' NOT <Empty>, which can then be reallocated at leisure, instead of two priesthood holders missing Sunday dinner to open the envelope and decipher my chicken scratch. Of course, better handwriting on my part could help too.

rootbeericecream wrote:Will additions be made to the "other" category? Several missionaries in are stake are users of missionary mobile devices. They were instructed to fill out "Other - Missionary Mobile Device" on the donation slip for their mission.

Question 10 under the Online Donations FAQ indicates that payments to the Other category that are payments for goods or services are not supported through the online donation tool because they are not actually donations to the church. The items that are under the Other category in the Online Donations are all true donations of the church and are tax deductible.

Based on that information it doesn't sound like missionaries or families will be able to use the online tool to pay for missionary mobile devices, at least not at this time. Those payments will have to be made directly to the ward in a donation envelope.

Well, there it is. Oops.

Does anyone know if there are legal or tax implications of goods or services being done through a web portal meant for charitable donations? Not a banker, but since my check that includes multiple categories is deposited into a single account (right?) before being parsed into its various categories, I can't imagine it being much different for an EFT. Am I wrong?

Not actually had the clerk calling, so maybe there is some obvious thing I am missing.

cawilson wrote:Does anyone know if there are legal or tax implications of goods or services being done through a web portal meant for charitable donations? Not a banker, but since my check that includes multiple categories is deposited into a single account (right?) before being parsed into its various categories, I can't imagine it being much different for an EFT. Am I wrong?

I've previously made contributions to the "Other" category that were not tax-deductible. I believe it can be on the same check as tax-deductible contributions. I don't know what the finance clerk does, but I believe the "Other" category donation has to be coded as to whether it is tax-deductible or not. My donation summary showed all the donations, but the US tax statement showed less than the full amount donated.

It's technically possible for the church to make an administrative interface for units to specify local items that could be shown on the "Other" menu, but with so many other competing priorities, I don't know if/when that would happen. They probably want to review the adoption rate of the tool before considering enhancements.

cawilson wrote:Does anyone know if there are legal or tax implications of goods or services being done through a web portal meant for charitable donations? Not a banker, but since my check that includes multiple categories is deposited into a single account (right?) before being parsed into its various categories, I can't imagine it being much different for an EFT. Am I wrong?

Not actually had the clerk calling, so maybe there is some obvious thing I am missing.

I know nothing for certain but here are a few possibilities:

• Most non-donations are put into subcategories of the Other:Authorized Member Financed Activities category but those sub-categories are local to the unit's MLS system and aren't transmitted to CHQ. So the online donations tools doesn't know what sub-categories are available. But this problem doesn't apply to missionary mobile devices. CHQ does know that at least somewhere (but it's possible it comes from a system the online donations doesn't currently interface with).
• Donations to Other:AMFA sub-categories remain in the unit's bank account and don't get swept to CHQ. It's possible there could be some legal reason they don't want those funds to pass through CHQ accounts. But that really isn't an issue for missionary mobile devices either because those payments do go to CHQ.
• Maybe it is technically and legally possible to handle missionary device payments online but it would require additional development and it isn't a high enough priority or it isn't felt that it is significant enough an issue to implement at all.

Or there may be some other reason that I haven't thought of or which can't really be known without insider information.

I think there's another issue. Most all categories shown in the on-line donation system have no upper limit. There's little concern about "over donation". (There may be some concern about a donation to a specific ward missionary, but given that it's an on-going thing for some time and any excess can be re-allocated, there is a simple fix.) But most other categories of "other" have a specific short-term need that once fulfilled would require any excess to be refunded. Re-allocation or shifting to another category is not permitted. That includes missionary mobile devices.

That could easily create a mess.

As an IT Project Manager, I strongly suggest against making it possible for every unit to manage their own drop down menus. When that many users can make that many changes, bad things happen (e.g "I thought ASCII characters were a good idea" or "What do you mean I can't use html tags?"). Many stakes don't have the resources to test that sort of thing either before making it live. It would have to be some poor guy in Salt Lake (or remote, I don't care) doing data entry for the whole nation. Let's not make that person's life miserable.

If I understand eblood66 correctly, the 'Other' donations go into 'subcategories' (same account, different general ledger number label), until someone moves them out of that account and completes the corresponding ledger entry. If that is the case, then the money ends up in the same account whether through EFT or an envelope full of coins. It sounds like currently all EFT deposits are assigned the ledger number by the web tool, whereas donations handed to the bishopric are assigned by the clerk (or whoever sits at the keyboard). If this is the case, then the next question becomes 'how easy is it to change a subcategory after it has been entered?' The same interface used for fixing incorrect entries (meant for stake instead of ward mission fund, or whatever) could be used to 'fix' 'Other' donations made through the web tool, if they were labeled in some way (hence a text box). If it isn't easy to change a subcategory, then I see a great reason why my suggestion should die.

And if I understand russellhltn correctly, it sounds like there are often mistakes made in donations that only a human would catch, and so we need that extra layer of quality control before donations are allocated to certain categories, especially in 'Other'. An example might be if I ordered 1000 of those temple commemorative books (on accident or on purpose), and there wasn't enough printed nor would there be to fulfill my order. A clerk would catch that, and return my check before depositing, but EFT would take the money, and then the clerk would have a difficult or impossible time sorting out the mess. Is that correct?

cawilson wrote:And if I understand russellhltn correctly, it sounds like there are often mistakes made in donations that only a human would catch, and so we need that extra layer of quality control before donations are allocated to certain categories, especially in 'Other'.

That's not what I was trying to say, but there's that too.

There a couple of things that go into what I'm saying:

The pre-printed donation slips don't show any of the ward's custom "Other" subcategories. Only people who know about them can donate to them.

But if you go and make these items available on the electronic donation page, you might get an excess of donation - something well in excess of need. There are procedures for when that happens. Generally refunding the people involved. And because the account isn't yet zeroed, it may continue to appear, and more members donate to that account. You've actually created a bigger headache then processing the weekly donations. It wouldn't make the clerk's life easier.

cawilson wrote:If I understand eblood66 correctly, the 'Other' donations go into 'subcategories' (same account, different general ledger number label), until someone moves them out of that account and completes the corresponding ledger entry. If that is the case, then the money ends up in the same account whether through EFT or an envelope full of coins. It sounds like currently all EFT deposits are assigned the ledger number by the web tool, whereas donations handed to the bishopric are assigned by the clerk (or whoever sits at the keyboard). If this is the case, then the next question becomes 'how easy is it to change a subcategory after it has been entered?' The same interface used for fixing incorrect entries (meant for stake instead of ward mission fund, or whatever) could be used to 'fix' 'Other' donations made through the web tool, if they were labeled in some way (hence a text box). If it isn't easy to change a subcategory, then I see a great reason why my suggestion should die.

Yes, MLS does allow you change the sub-category. But that would require a clerk to go back and fix up every Other donation make online. In my experience, clerks have a hard enough time managing the other accounts correctly and making sure donations go to the right place. Allowing free form Other donations which have to be fixed up after the fact would just aggravate things. I wouldn't recommend it.

mevans wrote:I've previously made contributions to the "Other" category that were not tax-deductible. I believe it can be on the same check as tax-deductible contributions. I don't know what the finance clerk does, but I believe the "Other" category donation has to be coded as to whether it is tax-deductible or not.

The clerk and bishopric member preparing the deposit do not determine if a contribution is charitable or not. The computer does. They indicate the breakdown of the donations into categories: Tithing, Fast Offering, Ward Missionary Fund, Humanitarian Aid, etc.

If the donation is to a category in Other, a purpose must be specified and the donation is entered into the proper subcategory, such as a Church-established fund (Temple Construction, Perpetual Education, Temple Patron Assistance, etc.) or a ward-established fund (Scout camp, magazine drive, etc.) The computer program does the rest.

If the donation is for approved, charitable purposes established by the Church, the contribution is charitable. If the donation is for any other purpose established by the ward, the contribution is non-charitable.

The computer sweeps the charitable donations to Church headquarters and gives the donor credit for the charitable donation. Donations to other subcategories set up by the ward in the Other account are left at the local unit, and the donor does not get charitable donation credit.

The donor may write one check for all if it, or provide any other combination of checks or cash up to the total amount of the donation.

lajackson wrote:The computer sweeps the charitable donations to Church headquarters

This to me sounds like the best reason so far why not to let the form take moneys for goods and services. It 'sounds like' the web form sends the EFT direct to the church's account, and then gives the membership number 'credit' for the donation. If that is the case, the form was only ever set up to deposit into one account, not 14,018, with new accounts being added every week. While it would be possible to build a tool that does just that, the quality management and the information security plans would have to be completely re-written, which isn't something you want to do after an application goes live. Or having another application that tracks the deposits into 'Other' category and then sends EFT's out to the 14,018 is also possible, but not something any CPA would like, and I assume pretty expensive to transfer that many small dollar amounts to so many different banks. It would have to be weekly or more often at minimum, because of the nature of some of those goods/services, meaning that you would have thousands of transfers a week, and few if any over a few hundred dollars. I don't actually know the cost to do an EFT, but banks don't take that risk for free, right? It has to be more than doing the bulk transfers of the entire charitable donations from the ward at longer intervals.

Thank you for explaining the financial logistics to me. It sounds like I just have to be content paying for my temple book the old fashioned way.

cawilson wrote:It 'sounds like' the web form sends the EFT direct to the church's account, and then gives the membership number 'credit' for the donation. If that is the case, the form was only ever set up to deposit into one account, not 14,018, with new accounts being added every week.

The one flaw in that argument is that ward missionary doesn't work that way. It goes into the ward's account, and even in to the named sub-account for the missionary. Much like the way people would like to see "Other" work. The one difference is "Other" tends to have ward-created sub-accounts where as the Ward Missionary has CHQ-created sub-accounts.

That is right! Good catch! If it is already looking up individual accounts by unit number, then the database is already in place, the quality and infosec requirements are already in place, and we are back to 'which is easier for the clerk: allocating it before or after deposit, through handwriting or a textbox?' Or maybe there are legal implications for using the same webform for both charitable and non-tax-deductible donations. But, I can't imagine that 'over-donation' would be any worse for a webform than the paper slips, as the slips are filled out by the same people, and whether the yahoo orders 1000 books on the same check as his tithing through the webform or putting it in an envelope, you still have the same mess. And forcing the person to type what it is for (definitely not suggesting, for my part, that an entry for every little thing be selectable in the drop down menu) I think solves the concern about over-donating to something.

But now I am curious. Has anyone made a contribution to a ward mission fund, and to another category, on the same EFT, and watched to see if it is done in one transaction or two? If it is only one, then the money goes into only one account at first. Does the church then send that money to the ward account through another EFT? Or perhaps the church just keeps the money and instead only makes a database entry that the money was paid, so it can be accessed in MLS. Another way to check is to have someone contribute to a ward mission fund through the webform and then check the actual bank account balance, and not just MLS.

cawilson wrote:But, I can't imagine that 'over-donation' would be any worse for a webform than the paper slips, as the slips are filled out by the same people,

No, it's worse. If in person, the donation can be set aside, the member can be tracked down and be told if it's not appropriate and give options as to what's to be done. If done on the web, the clerk would have to cut a refund check and get two people to sign it and deliver it to the member. (And since the donation was done via the Internet, the member may be away, traveling, or between wards. Not to mention the headache of extra transactions on an account whose purpose is to isolate transactions for clarity.

At minimum I think MLS would have to be modified to add a "allow donation" checkbox so that members don't donate to something the ward is trying to close out.

cawilson wrote:Or perhaps the church just keeps the money and instead only makes a database entry that the money was paid, so it can be accessed in MLS. Another way to check is to have someone contribute to a ward mission fund through the webform and then check the actual bank account balance, and not just MLS.

We have no way to checking that, at least not in the US. Local units have no visibility into the local account. It's handled entirely by CHQ. Local units only see what MLS shows.

cawilson wrote:Has anyone made a contribution to a ward mission fund, and to another category, on the same EFT, and watched to see if it is done in one transaction or two?

One ACH transfer from your checking or savings account to the Church.

cawilson wrote:Does the church then send that money to the ward account through another EFT? Or perhaps the church just keeps the money and instead only makes a database entry that the money was paid, so it can be accessed in MLS.

In the U.S., the ward doesn't have a bank account in the normal sense of the word. Headquarters keeps the money, and MLS lets the local unit know how much is theirs to spend.

When the ward makes a deposit at the local bank, that bank is acting as a deposit agent for the Church and transfers the deposit directly through to the Church.

Other countries work differently.

Note, as I understand the missionary account, while there are subaccounts created by the church, and while the donations appear in the sub accounts, technically you aren't able to donate to a specific "person", or else that would be a non-charitable donation. You donate to the missionary account, which is also why the missionary other account is different in that you cannot return donations to the missionary account to the "donor" if for some reason that missionary doesn't use those funds. On every other ward specified"other" account, the rules are, if the donation isn't used for the intended purpose, you have to refund the money. This is because (as I understand it) that these are not charitable donations, because by definition you can't specify how the funds will be spent in a charitable donation. If the ward just took the money and used it for something else, it WOULD become a charitable donation, and the church would have to report it as such.

The ward specified other accounts are pass through accounts, used for convenience to "collect" money and distribute it for a ward purpose, and as such aren't charitable donations.

So from this lengthy discussion and what common sense says it sounds like that when our Young Women and Young Men conduct there camp fundraiser, we instruct the members to not try and do this online. This will need to be done with the hard copy donation slip, check, and envelope and noted in other as we have done in previous years. Do you agree with this?

1968leocomeeatabite wrote:it sounds like that when our Young Women and Young Men conduct there camp fundraiser, we instruct the members to not try and do this online. This will need to be done with the hard copy donation slip, check, and envelope and noted in other as we have done in previous years. Do you agree with this?

That is correct.

From the Help file FAQ:

Q10. Consistent with Church policy, our ward may have a fundraising activity to raise money for youth activities such as Young Women or Scout camp. Can this money be donated online?

A10. No, contributions made for fundraising activities are not considered donations but are considered a payment for goods or services and cannot be completed online. They are similar to paying for the cost of craft projects that are part of a Relief Society activity. They must be done through your local ward or branch.