Looking for stories of General Authority Use of LDS Apps

Hey everyone, first time poster so please be kind. I tried searching through the forum to find something but wasn't successful.

I am giving a presentation on the available LDS apps at a relief society enrichment night. We have a lot of what you might call "Old guard" members who think it's akin to sinning if you read, let alone study your scriptures on a mobile device. That's confusing to me because why would the church put significant investment in making it easier to study your scriptures on a mobile device if it was "evil?"

What I'm hoping for is anecdotal stories of General authorities using Mobile devices for scripture study. For example one of our bishopric came back from a training and they were told that at the time, Elder Perry used an iPad extensively for scripture study.

Any similar stories would be very helpful!

Thank you.

I posted a story you are welcome to use. During the course of the discussion, the answer sometimes came faster from those with electronic devices, and sometimes faster from those with paper copies.

I have also participated in two more recent stake conferences where the visiting authorities used iPads. One was a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy, and one was an Area Seventy. Our mission president uses both. His notes are on the iPad and he uses a paper copy of his scriptures, as well.

In the post to which I linked, I also gave examples of where I would use an electronic device and where I would use paper. Also, since I posted, I no longer have an iPod Touch. I am now using an Android smarter-than-I-am phone.

You might find this useful, but don't expect to change the "old guard" until they are ready...

From the 2016 Curriculum announcement (https://www.lds.org/church/news/2016-cu ... _&lang=eng)

"Where possible, students and teachers are encouraged to use digital versions of 2016 curriculum materials, which can be found online and in the LDS Gospel Library mobile app. If you haven't tried the app, now is a good time to experience the ease of preparing, teaching, and learning from a library of gospel resources that fits in your pocket."

That said, I strongly believe we should honor those who are not willing or able to jump to digital. They have their reasons and have every right to not go digital if they want to. This from someone who my kids believe are the only people left in the world who don't own cell phones... (but we do have WIFI tablets).

davesudweeks wrote:"Where possible, students and teachers are encouraged to use digital versions of 2016 curriculum materials

And that same encouragement was found in the 2015 Curriculum Instructions and also in the 2014 Curriculum Instructions.

If you search LDS.org for "App" or "Mobile Device", you come up with quite a few relevant topics. More specific search terms may or may not yield similar results. For example:

1) Three members of the 70 commenting on updates to the Gospel Library: https://www.lds.org/church/news/latest- ... e?lang=eng (There are lots of news items where someone from the 70 comments on a new app / version.)

2) Elder Scott in general conference talks about appropriate ways to use a mobile device (including for scripture marking): https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... e?lang=eng (pretty much every instance will include warnings about not using a device inappropriately)

3) October 2013 GC, Elder Hales, "General Conference: Strengthening Faith and Testimony": "I encourage all members to use the resources on the Church's websites and mobile apps." - I don't know that we're ever going to hear much about the technical details of the General Authorities' personal scripture study methods, but you can't get more appropriate than an Apostle encouraging you to use the apps.

And I think what's already been said is the best advice - if people don't want to use electronic resources, that's just fine; if people can't use them, we should strive to help, if help is possible and desired, and be respectful of the situation. If people are really spouting false doctrine about electronic scriptures being virtually <g> sinful, a few links like the above and the simple fact that the Church's official site lists and provides links to download the apps, and the "store" pages for these apps use the official name of the Church (which they actively protect), should be enough to dispel that.

FWIW,

Liz

And, FWIW, my wife tried reading the scriptures on her 7" Android Tablet and didn't like the experience. She has gone back to paper for all her gospel study - she is old-school with making notes in the margins, etc. She does not even take her tablet to church.

I've noticed a number of the "older generation" using tablets in my ward. I think it might be because they can make the print larger. I'd imagine the large print editions get kinda heavy.

The "youngsters" tend to use phones.

davesudweeks wrote:
That said, I strongly believe we should honor those who are not willing or able to jump to digital. They have their reasons and have every right to not go digital if they want to. This from someone who my kids believe are the only people left in the world who don't own cell phones... (but we do have WIFI tablets).

Totally agree, my intent is not to try to get others to change their habits. People should study in the way that makes sense for them. I'm more interested in reassuring folks that it's not a sin. I once volunteered to read a scripture in Sunday school and afterward the teacher told me that they'd prefer I not volunteer to read unless I'm going to read from "the scriptures." (the paper ones)

Also a year ago when I was in the Stake YM presidency, we were asked to use our paper scriptures around the young men because we needed to "set an example" for them. Because apparently if a young man catches me reading the scriptures on a tablet, that I'm not being a good example?

Thanks everyone for your help so far!

eldermurray wrote:I once volunteered to read a scripture in Sunday school and afterward the teacher told me that they'd prefer I not volunteer to read unless I'm going to read from "the scriptures." (the paper ones)

Also a year ago when I was in the Stake YM presidency, we were asked to use our paper scriptures around the young men because we needed to "set an example" for them. Because apparently if a young man catches me reading the scriptures on a tablet, that I'm not being a good example?

I hate to break it to your leaders, but the bulk of General Conference is read from a teleprompter. You know, those squarish pieces of clear plastic you see in front of the podium?

Not to mention the example that lds.org give us:

eldermurray wrote:I once volunteered to read a scripture in Sunday school and afterward the teacher told me that they'd prefer I not volunteer to read unless I'm going to read from "the scriptures." (the paper ones)

Also a year ago when I was in the Stake YM presidency, we were asked to use our paper scriptures around the young men because we needed to "set an example" for them. Because apparently if a young man catches me reading the scriptures on a tablet, that I'm not being a good example?

I would request private time with that teacher to demonstrate that the Gospel Library *is* the scriptures - and try to do that in a non-confrontational way; and encourage them to read along with me, to see that what I'm reading when I volunteer matches their paper. And I would NOT stop volunteering. I would ask the YM presidency to explain in detail what their concerns were. I wouldn't go against their wishes, but I would request further understanding. (I imagine they're worried the youth would think *you* were gaming or whatever; if that's the case, it's easy to _show_ the youth you're not...)

Here follow some thoughts / ideas.

When I started teaching youth Sunday School, almost 2 years ago, no one gave me instruction one way or the other about paper vs. electronic, but all the youth in my class were bringing paper and I assumed they'd been told not to use their phones. I discussed this with my brother who was already teaching a youth class. Not only did he use electronic as teacher (and his students if they wanted), but he got all their cell numbers and would send them humorous reminders throughout the week to study the lesson and carry out invitations to act on what they'd discussed the previous Sunday. We both felt that unless they're taught to use electronic devices for spiritual purposes, they'll think of the device as for everything else, which won't help them avoid its less-worthy uses. (I mean, if your device screen has all these LDS app icons all over it, isn't that going to make you think twice about using it for less-worthy activities - at least until you're too far gone to care?)

So I used one of our lessons for teaching the youth how to use their electronic devices in class (including pulling up the lesson and following links to the material we were going to read). We then told the students they could use their devices or paper, as they wished. Some use only electronic, some prefer paper most of the time, some alternate (why, I don't know or care). Two have had troubles not using their devices for games - the other teacher and I (and one of their peers - of his own volition) have found ways to encourage using the Gospel Library instead.

In late 2014 when I saw the recommendation that people use electronic resources, but that we had never had training (and needed it), I discussed this with the bishop. He discussed it with the Ward Council and asked me to teach a class (after hours on a Sunday evening). Turn-out was huge (we hyped it, and clearly people *wanted* to know how to make the most of the Gospel Library). We spent about 1.5 hours and the people who spoke to me after said they learned a lot from it. Perhaps you should discuss this with your bishop - his endorsement via official ward activity might dispel the false ideas of others (unless he agrees with them, in which case, I recommend prayer).

FWIW,

Liz

Something else to consider: at one point, I seem to remember counsel to study the scriptures, and not just read them. That is, to pick a topic and then read the passages about it. Using GL and starting with the Topical Guide, this becomes a snap.

eldermurray wrote:I once volunteered to read a scripture in Sunday school and afterward the teacher told me that they'd prefer I not volunteer to read unless I'm going to read from "the scriptures." (the paper ones)

To which, when asked the same question, I responded, "Oh, sorry. Did it get it wrong?" "No." "Then just pretend I quoted it from memory."

The real fun is when you are asked to read the heading from a section of the Doctrine and Covenants that has changed.

President Nelson uses his iPhone extensively. He used it back in 2014 at the University of Minnesota as a guest lecturer. He pulled out his iPhone to read from Leviticus. Judging by the speed that he found the scripture, he uses his iPhone for the Scriptures quite frequently.

The following is a link to his alumnus speech. The part I referenced is at (24:38-27:4).

http://mediamill.cla.umn.edu/mediamill/ ... /999224222

lajackson wrote:

eldermurray wrote:I once volunteered to read a scripture in Sunday school and afterward the teacher told me that they'd prefer I not volunteer to read unless I'm going to read from "the scriptures." (the paper ones)

To which, when asked the same question, I responded, "Oh, sorry. Did it get it wrong?" "No." "Then just pretend I quoted it from memory."

Really? You've been told not to read the scriptures off an electronic device, too? Just how widespread is this problem? I might understand it if you lived in "Timbuk-we-just-got-indoor-plumbing", but in the so-called first world?

Meanwhile, on a happier note, while teaching Gospel Doctrine one Sunday 2+ years ago (using my Android tablet), I asked someone to read a scripture and as I was navigating to the same scripture to follow along, my tablet crashed, to which I said something like "Oh no, my scriptures just rebooted" - which got a lot of laughs (and not just in class - apparently the story was worth retelling as a friend told me later... ).

Liz

Here's another link: https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/ ... d?lang=eng

Got enough yet

Liz

PS: My brother says that it would indeed be a sin if you were using an iOS or Windows device, but Android is perfectly OK.

lmcguire wrote:Really? You've been told not to read the scriptures off an electronic device, too? Just how widespread is this problem? I might understand it if you lived in "Timbuk-we-just-got-indoor-plumbing", but in the so-called first world?

It was quite a while ago.

I think it's a generational thing. In my growing up years great emphasis was placed on getting us youngsters to bring our scriptures to Church with us. No that we cracked them open very often, but just having them with us was considered progress by our leaders.

And all of a sudden, that someone without their thump thump scriptures was able to correctly read unannounced passages caused some measure of awe and consternation from an adult who still knows only a land line for telephone service.

In my case, the teacher was afraid I would not "get it right" and she would have to embarrass me with a correction in front of the class. I reassured her that it was perfectly fine to say so if I made a mistake, that I wanted to read the scriptures correctly, as well. After a few months she warmed up to it, but I could tell she was always a little leery of it, at least until she realized she sometimes had to correct those who read from their papyrus, er, paper, as well.

lajackson wrote:It was quite a while ago.

Are we talking Palm Pilot era?

We all know how frequently teacher's manuals are lost in the transition between teachers. Are clerks ordering new teachers manuals these days?

lajackson wrote:I think it's a generational thing. In my growing up years great emphasis was placed on getting us youngsters to bring our scriptures to Church with us.

Same emphasis for me when I was a teen, but my dad's in his 70s and uses a smartphone and tablet for at least some of this stuff, so it's clearly more than just generational - I'm thinking regional and individual too... I get generational explaining not wanting to _use_ the newfangled doohickey; I don't get questioning its validity as if the world weren't still spinning - I mean anyone still alive in the western world has seen massive amounts of technological change. I suppose something one (a.k.a. me, not them - hmm, or them too, maybe) hasn't experienced or imagined personally is just shocking.

Liz

russellhltn wrote:

lajackson wrote:It was quite a while ago.

Are we talking Palm Pilot era?

That made me laugh out loud! Thanks for starting my morning off right.

Liz

Our family just started reading the Doctrine and Covenants, and half of us use mobile devices, the other half have paper. One of my daughters started reading a section heading and the electronic is different than the paper scriptures. She was told that she skipped some stuff and so I had to explain that the scriptures got an overhaul a couple years back, particularly the section headings of the Doctrine and Covenant Section headings.

So, in a way, if you're not using the electronic version, or purchased new paper versions in the last year or so, you're not using the current church authorized standard

The Church should pioneer electronic classrooms and wide dissemination of information. But there are at least three things a digital device in my hand cannot do: 1) allow me to look quickly from one verse to another, comparing the wording and context in careful examination of the writ, 2) browse the content with a feeling of familiarity and "I've been here many times before," and 3) share my love of the word (whether a scripture book or a lesson manual) with my neighbor who is new, sitting next to me in a classroom and thirsting for both instruction and fellowship. Strength in the gospel is ultimately about relationships (with God, family, and others); sending a link is fairly impersonal, and most digital media tend to isolate us as individuals rather than bring us together. That is the prize we should all keep our eyes on.

gilldavid wrote:The Church should pioneer electronic classrooms and wide dissemination of information. But there are at least three things a digital device in my hand cannot do: 1) allow me to look quickly from one verse to another, comparing the wording and context in careful examination of the writ, 2) browse the content with a feeling of familiarity and "I've been here many times before," and 3) share my love of the word (whether a scripture book or a lesson manual) with my neighbor who is new, sitting next to me in a classroom and thirsting for both instruction and fellowship. Strength in the gospel is ultimately about relationships (with God, family, and others); sending a link is fairly impersonal, and most digital media tend to isolate us as individuals rather than bring us together. That is the prize we should all keep our eyes on.

I love that I have so much information available in a small, easy-to-carry form. However, when I read your post, I have to say, "WELL SAID."

lmcguire wrote:

russellhltn wrote:

lajackson wrote:It was quite a while ago.

Are we talking Palm Pilot era?

That made me laugh out loud! Thanks for starting my morning off right.

It was a serious question. In my mind, that's when electronic scriptures started. I'd think by the time the iPhone came along, most wards would have had at least one member with a Palm device and using it for their scriptures.

gilldavid wrote:The Church should pioneer electronic classrooms and wide dissemination of information. But there are at least three things a digital device in my hand cannot do: 1) allow me to look quickly from one verse to another, comparing the wording and context in careful examination of the writ, 2) browse the content with a feeling of familiarity and "I've been here many times before," and 3) share my love of the word (whether a scripture book or a lesson manual) with my neighbor who is new, sitting next to me in a classroom and thirsting for both instruction and fellowship. Strength in the gospel is ultimately about relationships (with God, family, and others); sending a link is fairly impersonal, and most digital media tend to isolate us as individuals rather than bring us together. That is the prize we should all keep our eyes on.

I'm a contrarian when it comes to each of the steps above, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that these three things 'IN MY HAND' cannot do. Each of the above could either apply to you or not. My kids would not relate in any way with what you've said above.

What I hope is that we don't start to think about paper vs digital as a good/better/best thing, but that we have different strokes for different folks. I'll never go back to paper, and I'll never break my covenants because I don't use paper. I'll never 'miss' out in an opportunity to share thoughts with others, use the scriptures as a teaching tool with my family, or any other thing that someone thinks is more valuable in a 'paper' format. It may be your own perspective or point of view, but don't foist it on my or my kids please.

This is where I have problems, Seminary teachers who insist on paper, sunday school or YW leaders who insist on paper - It makes no sense, I'd rather have our family scripture marking stored in a cloud service that will survive mediums as they come and go (I learned that lesson in month 23 of my mission when my scriptures were stolen)

russellhltn wrote:It was a serious question. In my mind, that's when electronic scriptures started. I'd think by the time the iPhone came along, most wards would have had at least one member with a Palm device and using it for their scriptures.

I don't doubt it - Palm provided my first e-scriptures too. For whatever reason, though, that comment made me laugh out loud (maybe I'm getting senile).

Liz

gilldavid wrote:But there are at least three things a digital device in my hand cannot do: 1) allow me to look quickly from one verse to another, comparing the wording and context in careful examination of the writ, 2) browse the content with a feeling of familiarity and "I've been here many times before," and 3) share my love of the word (whether a scripture book or a lesson manual) with my neighbor who is new, sitting next to me in a classroom and thirsting for both instruction and fellowship. Strength in the gospel is ultimately about relationships (with God, family, and others); sending a link is fairly impersonal, and most digital media tend to isolate us as individuals rather than bring us together. That is the prize we should all keep our eyes on.

I understand #1, and hope one day they'll add to the Gospel Library the requested feature of viewing two content items side by side. (When I'm really desperate for this, I use two devices side by side.)

But I don't understand #2 or #3. When I browse through the Gospel Library, I do get the feeling of having been there many times before - especially when I see my highlights (which for clearly neurotic reasons, I make more readily in e-books than in paper books). And I've shared viewing of my device with a neighbor in class and out of class. I've even switched mine to another language, given it to a visitor who didn't speak English well and didn't have the manual we were using, pointed out where we were, and shared with someone else so I could see it in English. I've also helped people install LDS apps on their device - akin to handing them a paper copy.

Sending a link is as personal or impersonal as the people involved wish to make it - if you don't take the time to write a note, or if there was no conversation beforehand, then it's impersonal; but if you take the time to include a personal note, or if the other person is right there, saying, "Oh, send me a link to that," it's quite personal. Similar for using digital media - if you're in a group reading to each other from e-devices, it's no more isolating than reading to each other from paper. If you're completely absorbed in paper scriptures and oblivious to the world around you, it's no less isolating than being completely absorbed in e-scriptures.

While I'm not saying electronic can, should, or must replace paper in any or all instances (e.g. it's a good idea to have a paper Book of Mormon nearby so you can give it out at a moment's notice), I don't think electronic prevents you from feeling at home in the scriptures, or from sharing in a personal way. If you prefer paper, use paper. If you prefer electronic, use electronic. Either way, your admonition is valid: don't lose sight of the purpose of life.

FWIW,

Liz

lajackson:
It was quite a while ago.

russellhltn:
Are we talking Palm Pilot era?

lmcguire:
That made me laugh out loud! Thanks for starting my morning off right.

russellhltn:
It was a serious question.

Get your laugh track back out, Liz.

I used to generate the ward directory from IBM 80-column punched cards. The new member gave me their information, I punched the card and inserted it into the deck. During the week I ran two copies of the updated directory, one for the new family and one for the bishop, on an IBM System 370 mainframe.

Run that through your chronometer, Russell. "Do not fold, spindle or mutilate." And don't forget the FIN card.

If you need another chronological hint, try white, yellow, blue, green, pink. Or was it white, yellow, green, blue, pink?

Seriously, I did own a used Palm Pilot for about a year. It had two functions in my life, calendar and to do list. It was not reliable enough to use at Church for scriptures or anything else. It had a good backup system that I kept on my 486, which I used to recover when the Palm Pilot cratered.

lajackson wrote:Get your laugh track back out, Liz.

I used to generate the ward directory from IBM 80-column punched cards. The new member gave me their information, I punched the card and inserted it into the deck. During the week I ran two copies of the updated directory, one for the new family and one for the bishop, on an IBM System 370 mainframe....

Oh, I can't come close to that one. I think Palm Pilot or LDS Info Bases (for Win3.1) - whichever came first - is as far back as my electronic church stuff goes. (I still possess the former, but haven't touched it in ages; I still use the latter, on an XP virtual machine.)

I wonder what Elder Murray's ward members would say in reaction to me telling users at work, "It turns out the chicken bones weren't arranged properly. But we got them straightened out and everything should work now." (You know, cuz what geeks do is magic according to the users.)

Liz

lmcguire wrote:

gilldavid wrote:But there are at least three things a digital device in my hand cannot do: 1) allow me to look quickly from one verse to another, comparing the wording and context in careful examination of the writ

I understand #1, and hope one day they'll add to the Gospel Library the requested feature of viewing two content items side by side. (When I'm really desperate for this, I use two devices side by side.)

You can't view side by side, but you can have multiple content windows open and quickly switch between them. On Android, the icon looks like two boxes, one on top of the other.

@sgallafent - Yes. And I've even read bits and pieces right off that screen showing the list of windows (can't generally read it all cuz the right edge gets chopped off), but that's not as cool as side-by-side would be.

Liz

lajackson wrote:I used to generate the ward directory from IBM 80-column punched cards. The new member gave me their information, I punched the card and inserted it into the deck. During the week I ran two copies of the updated directory, one for the new family and one for the bishop, on an IBM System 370 mainframe.

I did punch cards. Only one class, but I did them.

lajackson wrote:I used to generate the ward directory from IBM 80-column punched cards. The new member gave me their information, I punched the card and inserted it into the deck. During the week I ran two copies of the updated directory, one for the new family and one for the bishop, on an IBM System 370 mainframe.

Did you store membership data in the cloud?

I tried to write a membership data and ward directory program on my Radio Shack Color Computer in 1984, but never got it working. The output didn't look very good on a 9-pin dot-matrix printer anyway.

drepouille wrote:Did you store membership data in the cloud?

Never! (Unless you count the cards being stored in the box in my closet at home.) It was just a deck of data cards that I ran through the IBM card reader and sent to the printer every week, much akin to a printer setting Linotype one whole line at a time. (I once personally watched a Linotype operator set a page for the morning paper. I guess I'm really dating myself now.)

By the time I bought my own Kaypro II and an Okidata Microline 91 printer, the Church was mailing out quarterly ward directories that we used instead. My wife always referred to the computer and printer as "a very expensive typewriter". The folks with the 8 and 16K computers laughed at me because I had splurged on a 64K memory computer. Two years later they were laughing at me because I still had it, and they were deciding between 256 and 512K models. Those are K's, not M's or G's, for you youngsters.

I was very surprised the first time I saw someone use an electronic device to give a talk in sacrament meeting. It was a youth speaker. I thought he was carrying his scriptures (a paperback triple, actually) when he walked up to the stand, but it was an iPad. He laid it on the pulpit, gave his talk as if he had written it out on paper, and then quietly closed it and returned to his seat. Nothing flashy or showy. Most of the members didn't even notice. And it was a good talk, too.

The next time I saw it happen was by a general authority at a stake conference leadership meeting.

I had to explain to one of my children this week how the keys would jam on a typewriter if you typed too fast, and what a blessing it was when the IBM Selectric came out, a marvel of engineering. We've come a long way.