New HT and VT not syncing with MLS

In the release notes for the new HT/VT function it stated, "While the data will still be visible in MLS, leaders and clerks will be required to use LCR to update this information"

When I check in MLS, the data is not updated to changes made in LCR. Is this a bug? I figured what this meant was once we made changes in LCR, if we opened MLS and did a send and receive, the data in MLS would be updated. Was I incorrect?

This is a CRITICAL function for our ward since we sometimes need to export a CSV file of home and visiting teaching data, which is not offered through LCR.

Help??

-Josh
Ward Clerk

joshbingham wrote:In the release notes for the new HT/VT function it stated, "While the data will still be visible in MLS, leaders and clerks will be required to use LCR to update this information"

A more accurate statement would be that 'existing data will still be visible in MLS'. Basically, you can still view whatever was entered before the new release but any new information is in LCR exclusively. After a certain transition period they will be removing the ability to view the old information in MLS as well (but no specific time frame has been released for that yet).

joshbingham wrote: This is a CRITICAL function for our ward since we sometimes need to export a CSV file of home and visiting teaching data, which is not offered through LCR.

You'll have to get along without that because no export will be made available from LCR and the export in MLS is going to be removed as well.

The LCR release notes say "Changes made to home and visiting teaching in LCR will not be viewable or updatable in MLS."

Everyone thanks for the info.

But seriously, we NEED the CSV file export/functionality. Our ward is in the heart of silicon valley and we wrote an extensive Home and Visiting Teaching software system (about 10 years ago) and we use the exported CSV file to upload to our server that populates our whole system. This system was presented to the church many years ago, and they loved it and used some of our ideas for this new Home and Visiting Teaching beta system on LDS.org. However, it lacks in features that our system has. One features that is missing that is critical is the ability to "comment" on how the person/family is doing. Just checking a box to report the visit happened doesn't give priesthood and auxiliary leaders much info on how the ward members are doing from month to month. I am hoping that is a feature they plan on adding in the future.

Can someone please get the feedback about CSV exports to the project manager(s) of this new function? I promise you many, many wards will want/need this. Just like in MLS you can restrict the ability to export to just a few key leadership positions, just like you do in MLS now....Bishopric & Ward Clerk.

joshbingham wrote:Can someone please get the feedback about CSV exports to the project manager(s) of this new function?

I'm pretty sure this was handed down by the Priesthood Department. You'd have better luck with an appeal though the stake president to the area authority.

joshbingham wrote:One features that is missing that is critical is the ability to "comment" on how the person/family is doing. Just checking a box to report the visit happened doesn't give priesthood and auxiliary leaders much info on how the ward members are doing from month to month. I am hoping that is a feature they plan on adding in the future.

It sounds like your system has self reporting. We've already been told that there are no plans for self reporting. We've also had multiple indications that even if self reporting were to be implemented, comments almost certainly would not. The privacy problems are just too big. Not only are there likely legal problems (especially in some countries with more restrictions than the US) but the idea that the church had a database of notes about the personal situations of members could damage the church's image and it's missionary efforts.

joshbingham wrote:Can someone please get the feedback about CSV exports to the project manager(s) of this new function? I promise you many, many wards will want/need this. Just like in MLS you can restrict the ability to export to just a few key leadership positions, just like you do in MLS now....Bishopric & Ward Clerk.

The official ways of providing feedback are through the Feedback link in LCR or, as russellhltn said, via the priesthood lines of authority. You are certainly free to try both means.

However, I'm rather certain that the decision makers are well aware that people are using the exports for things like this and would like to keep it. But such uses are already questionable given current policy (see 4.9.3 of the Meetinghouse Technology Policy) and the removal of the exports may be an effort to stop inappropriate uses. Not that I'm saying your ward and/or stake's use is against policy--I don't know that and it's not my place to judge--but there are uses that are not approved and the general authorities that make these decisions are obviously concerned enough about those uses to block them by removing the export abilities. To change their minds you'll likely need to convince them that the benefits out-weight the risks they see.

Thanks eblood66 for responding. I love these forums.

Actually, no, we do not have self-reporting in our system...which is username and password protected.

Thanks for the advice on giving feedback through the Priesthood leaders. I would love to explain in greater detail how comments are invaluable in the process for Bishop's, EQPs, and RSPs staying up-to-date on the members of their flocks and in some cases, respond with appropriate actions (thanks, congrats, or offers to help with certain struggles).

Lastly, just to inform you, our system isn't against policy...SLC approved it years ago and applauded our efforts to try and create a system that helps everyone involved in the HT/VT process to be more effective in their assignments.

Thanks brother and have a wonderful day,

-Josh

joshbingham wrote:Lastly, just to inform you, our system isn't against policy...SLC approved it years ago and applauded our efforts to try and create a system that helps everyone involved in the HT/VT process to be more effective in their assignments.

If you still have a contact there, it might be worth checking with them. Perhaps an exception can be made, or they can explain why things have changed.

joshbingham wrote:Thanks for the advice on giving feedback through the Priesthood leaders. I would love to explain in greater detail how comments are invaluable in the process for Bishop's, EQPs, and RSPs staying up-to-date on the members of their flocks and in some cases, respond with appropriate actions (thanks, congrats, or offers to help with certain struggles).

I am quite certain they would agree with you. After all, that is the reason why we report our home teaching during priesthood interviews to our priesthood leaders.

I was just called as Visiting Teaching Coordinator and, along with a new RS President, just completely re-did VT assignments in our ward. I logged on to LCR, made all of the changes (took several hours!) and need to export this information to .csv so I can create form letters (using mail merge) to send to the sisters with their new assignments. In searching how to do this I found this thread and am now concerned that there is no possible way to do this, meaning I will have to take many, many hours to input the information manually, OR find a way to repeat the updates in MLS (can I even export this information in .csv there?) Being able to export seems like a fairly common need, seems strange to not be able to do that. Any help?

ctarbet wrote:I was just called as Visiting Teaching Coordinator and, along with a new RS President, just completely re-did VT assignments in our ward. I logged on to LCR, made all of the changes (took several hours!) and need to export this information to .csv so I can create form letters (using mail merge) to send to the sisters with their new assignments. In searching how to do this I found this thread and am now concerned that there is no possible way to do this, meaning I will have to take many, many hours to input the information manually, OR find a way to repeat the updates in MLS (can I even export this information in .csv there?) Being able to export seems like a fairly common need, seems strange to not be able to do that. Any help?

No, I'm afraid there is no way to do that anymore. Neither LCR or MLS support exports anymore and there is no longer any way to enter HT/VT assignments in MLS..

Although having an export of this information is definitely a common desire, it seems that the church leadership has decided that the privacy risks are too great to allow it.

Rather than doing a lot of manual input I would suggest using the standard companionship printout, possibly with an accompanying non-mail merge letter. It may not be as slick but it should serve the same purpose.

Thanks for your reply, I'm pretty disappointed that there isn't a report (or 2) that I can run and export with this information. I can use the regular print out for the letters but not the cute magnets that go on the fridge. It's very frustrating to not have a capability to do this electronicly. We also want to create a quick reference magnet for the fridge that has the Sister's VT route (names, phone numbers, and b-days) as well as her own VT's names and phone numbers. The RS President is insistent that I create something like that and I'm trying to save myself from having to write them all out by hand (besides, no one can read my handwriting). I tried doing it myself the other day before getting my permissions for LCR by logging on to lds.org, printing the directory to PDF, converting .pdf to .rtf and then converting that to .csv and importing to excel. It was a big pain and the formatting was all off, the phone numbers were assigned to wrong person and the birthdays weren't included. Worked for 3 hours to try to clean up the information to try to use it and ended up abandoning it. I just keep thinking that there has to be an easier way! I guess I figure that if you give someone permission to see the information, it follows that you trust that they will use it in the right way. If you can't trust them to use it correctly, don't give them a calling that requires them to use the information.

ctarbet wrote:In searching how to do this I found this thread and am now concerned that there is no possible way to do this,

Your fears are well-founded.

ctarbet wrote:OR find a way to repeat the updates in MLS

HT/VT in MLS has been turned off - at least as far as making any changes. It may still allow access to historical data. But it will not get the changes made to LCR.

ctarbet wrote:(can I even export this information in .csv there?)

File exports have been removed from MLS. You may still be able to do a cut and paste, but without the data, that's a moot point.

I'd re-think the idea of a letter. I think most take a canned report and hand it out (perhaps after cutting it up) to indicate an assignment. You could hand out a photo copied letter at the same time for information common to all VT.

ctarbet wrote:The RS President is insistent that I create something like that and I'm trying to save myself from having to write them all out by hand (besides, no one can read my handwriting). I tried doing it myself the other day before getting my permissions for LCR by logging on to lds.org, printing the directory to PDF, converting .pdf to .rtf and then converting that to .csv and importing to excel. It was a big pain and the formatting was all off, the phone numbers were assigned to wrong person and the birthdays weren't included. Worked for 3 hours to try to clean up the information to try to use it and ended up abandoning it.

Is the Relief Society President aware that there's no export functionality anymore? Perhaps if she understood the process she would opt for something simpler. If she'd like the magnets anyway (which is a nice idea), maybe it would be worth calling an additional secretary to help out.

What a disappointment that this wonderful system doesn't allow for mail merges. As an RS President, I like to send letters, etc. to all the sisters. A mail merge would make it easier to accomplish.

Earlier, eblood66 said , "Rather than doing a lot of manual input I would suggest using the standard companionship printout, possibly with an accompanying non-mail merge letter. It may not be as slick but it should serve the same purpose." But not really. Our inactive members won't feel special with a generic letter. They will see it for what it is: a lame try at connecting with them. And don't say that we should be visiting in person. We are trying to do that, too.

It seems as if we just get enough technology to do some good, and then our hands are tied when we try to use it to touch more people in a more personal way. And why can't the RS Pres or Secretary input their own attendance numbers? Does that make sense to anyone?

babsincal wrote:It seems as if we just get enough technology to do some good, and then our hands are tied when we try to use it to touch more people in a more personal way.

Personally, I'm sure that the General Authorities in charge of these decisions would love to make some of these simple features available to help leaders like yourself. I'm sure they have considered these things very carefully before deciding not to make them available. In some cases their hands may be tied by legal issues or the possibility of legal liability. In others they may feel that the negative consequences of just a few privacy breaches would cause more damage than can be justified by the benefits.

babsincal wrote:And why can't the RS Pres or Secretary input their own attendance numbers? Does that make sense to anyone?

There is only one attendance number that has to be entered and it only has to be entered once a quarter. The development work involved in giving each organization's leaders the rights to enter their own number doesn't seem to be justified by the benefit. Most of the benefit would be for the clerk (for most leaders it's not any easier to enter the number online than it is to send a quick email to the clerk with the number) and it wouldn't save him more than a few seconds each quarter.

joshbingham wrote:Everyone thanks for the info.

But seriously, we NEED the CSV file export/functionality.

Re: Exporting and CVS access.

Perhaps one reason for this void is that it is too easy to create databases that violate church policy. Privacy is becoming a major issue.

I suggest that you consult the Meetinghouse Technology Policy documents:

Meetinghouse Technology Policy
https://www.lds.org/help/support/meetin ... lang=eng#4
4.9 MLS Data and Membership Information
4.9.1 Information about members, donations, and financial transactions is confidential and must be protected from unauthorized disclosure.
4.9.2 MLS data, database tables, or schemas must not be used or shared to create or assist in the creation of third party software.
4.9.3 The use of MLS data and membership information in third party software is prohibited, whether obtained from within or outside of a meetinghouse.
4.9.4 The use of cloud-based services for storing and/or backing up MLS or any membership related data is prohibited.