Error trying to move out records

I am trying to move a less-active member's record out of our ward to where they belong. I have the correct address and phone number. The appropriate ward appears. But whenever I click the "Move Out of Ward" button, I get an error message: "Please correct the errors below"

But there are no errors. There is no place for errors. I've tried Chrome, Safari, Firefox. No dice. I still get the same error message.

I've had this same problem with other records, but it only seems to occur when there is another ward to choose from (for example, if there's also a singles ward covering that area). And yet when I choose the right ward, it continues to tell me to correct the error.

Please help.

Same thing just happened to me! Has anybody figured this out?

I spoke with Salt Lake about this and they informed me that this is a known problem they are trying to resolve. The issue does not occur with Internet Explorer, they told me, but I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want to use Internet Explorer. Besides, I use a Mac, and Internet Explorer isn't available for the Mac.

Thanks for the reply. I initially tried using Chrome, but I just tried again with Internet Explorer and got the same error.

Have you tried to move the record out using MLS? That capability is still there. If that fails then send a special request through MLS with the information where the record should go.

jdlessley wrote:Have you tried to move the record out using MLS? That capability is still there. If that fails then send a special request through MLS with the information where the record should go.

Well it looks like the resent update to MLS removed the capability to move records.
But the special request is still available.

jdlessley wrote:Well it looks like the resent update to MLS removed the capability to move records.

You sure about that? It's not in the release notes.

russellhltn wrote:

jdlessley wrote:Well it looks like the resent update to MLS removed the capability to move records.

You sure about that? It's not in the release notes.

I am sure. I did a test today and got the message that said I would be redirected to LDS.org to complete the task. I made my post above just after I did the test.

Interesting. My test install is doing the same: for both request and move-out. Seems like something important didn't get into the release notes.

Ours must not have updated yet, since I was able to use MLS to move the record in question out today.

robertebalmer wrote:Ours must not have updated yet, since I was able to use MLS to move the record in question out today.

When you start MLS, are you approving the patch to run?

There were several last-minute changes with the latest MLS release to redirect some functionality to LCR. The decision to make those changes was made after the release notes were published.

If there is an issue occurring with move outs, the clerk can either use the special request function in MLS or contact the Global Service Center for assistance.

scgallafent wrote:There were several last-minute changes with the latest MLS release to redirect some functionality to LCR. The decision to make those changes was made after the release notes were published.

So then the move a record out functionality is no longer in MLS and LCR is the only way to do it?

And if so, and the move is to an address served by two different wards (i.e., the geographical ward and also a YSA ward, as in the case of the original poster), then we either put everything in an MLS special request, or we call the GSC to have them make the move for us?

scgallafent wrote:There were several last-minute changes with the latest MLS release to redirect some functionality to LCR.

Any other surprises? I'm just trying to avoid sending people to MLS if it can't be done there any more.

lajackson wrote:

scgallafent wrote:There were several last-minute changes with the latest MLS release to redirect some functionality to LCR. The decision to make those changes was made after the release notes were published.

So then the move a record out functionality is no longer in MLS and LCR is the only way to do it?

Correct. Non-LCR units will still be able to use MLS, but LCR units will be redirected to the online application.

lajackson wrote:And if so, and the move is to an address served by two different wards (i.e., the geographical ward and also a YSA ward, as in the case of the original poster), then we either put everything in an MLS special request, or we call the GSC to have them make the move for us?

The LCR move out application handles those cases. If I move a record to my ward, I can move it to the conventional ward or can choose one of the overlay units from a drop list. For my house, the drop list is populated with my ward and the following options:

• YSA ward
• Sign language branch
• Navajo ward
• Samoan ward
• Spanish ward
• Tongan ward
• Tongan YSA ward

The list includes the unit name and type. Except for the Navajo ward, I could identify the others by name and type just by looking at the list. If I know the specific ward that the record should be moved to, I can also specify that ward.

russellhltn wrote:

scgallafent wrote:There were several last-minute changes with the latest MLS release to redirect some functionality to LCR.

Any other surprises? I'm just trying to avoid sending people to MLS if it can't be done there any more.

There were several changes that redirect functionality to LCR, but I can't think of any other significant surprises. I know that home and visiting teaching was a late change to a redirect due to the amount of confusion there has been with HT/VT data not being moved back to MLS.

As a general rule, if the functionality exists in LCR, use the LCR version instead of MLS. As you have noticed, we are getting more insistent about redirecting users from MLS to LCR.

scgallafent wrote:As you have noticed, we are getting more insistent about redirecting users from MLS to LCR.

Indeed. Some training resources, even some some "safe" screen shots would be nice. Since I don't have access that part of LCR as a STS, I'm kinda flying blind when giving advice.

There's also been at least a couple of cases reported in the forums where someone had a problem and it turned out they just needed to learn how to use LCR. I guess it's not as intuitive as hoped.

scgallafent wrote:

lajackson wrote:And if the move is to an address served by two different wards (i.e., the geographical ward and also a YSA ward, as in the case of the original poster), . . .

The LCR move out application handles those cases.

The original poster in this topic (and the one following) received an error after he specified the unit. It may have been related to his browser (IE was not available to him).

I trust that if he still cannot send the records, the GSC is the proper place to work the problem.

lajackson wrote:I trust that if he still cannot send the records, the GSC is the proper place to work the problem.

Correct.

When I'm moving records out of our Ward, I'm redirected to the internet. Unfortunately, after providing log in details, an error stating access denied. I'm the 1st counselor in the Bishopric thus was curious why I'm unable to move members out.

Re: Error trying to move out records
Post by johnjustermatiascardenas » 02 Aug 2015 08:47

When I'm moving records out of our Ward, I'm redirected to the internet. Unfortunately, after providing log in details, an error stating access denied. I'm the 1st counselor in the Bishopric thus was curious why I'm unable to move members out.

If you look at the access table you will find that the Bishop and the clerks are the only callings that can move records out of a unit, that is why you are getting the error. This decision is under the direction of the priesthood department.

johnjustermatiascardenas wrote:I'm the 1st counselor in the Bishopric thus was curious why I'm unable to move members out.

Your calling doesn't permit the moving of records. You can see the access table here.

johnjustermatiascardenas wrote:When I'm moving records out of our Ward, I'm redirected to the internet. Unfortunately, after providing log in details, an error stating access denied. I'm the 1st counselor in the Bishopric thus was curious why I'm unable to move members out.

If you want to see a more detailed discussion as to why counselors in the bishopric do not have permission to move records, see this topic and the topic linked to from the second post of that topic.

I am the 2nd counselor the in our bishopric and when I try to request records for individuals in Lds.org it says access denied? I was able to request records in MLS but now I can't. What do i need to do to have access? When I use MLS it takes me to Lds.org and I have no way of requesting records.

[Moderator note: I moved this post from General Clerk Discussions into an existing topic for this issue.]

jbramble wrote:I am the 2nd counselor the in our bishopric and when I try to request records for individuals in Lds.org it says access denied? I was able to request records in MLS but now I can't. What do i need to do to have access? When I use MLS it takes me to Lds.org and I have no way of requesting records.

As you can see by reviewing the posts in this topic, there's nothing you can do to have access for moving records. That is not a function assigned to bishopric counselors in the Handbook.

Same problem here in Lithuania. In one of our branches we have a brother whose first calling is "Branch Presidency Second Counselor" and second calling is "Branch Clerk". When he tries to move records out to another unit he gets "Access Denied" error. Maybe LCR only accepts his first calling when deciding if he is eligible to perform the action? But, as mentioned, he is also a branch clerk and this calling is recorded on his membership file and therefore he should be able to have access to perform the moving out of records...

rchomskis wrote:Same problem here in Lithuania. In one of our branches we have a brother whose first calling is "Branch Presidency Second Counselor" and second calling is "Branch Clerk". When he tries to move records out to another unit he received "Access Denied" error. Maybe the system only accepts his first calling when deciding if he is eligible to perform the action? But, as mentioned, he is also a branch clerk and this calling is recorded on his membership file and therefore he should be able to have access to perform the moving out of records...

I haven't seen it personally but I believe there should be a drop down box somewhere that lets you choose which calling to use when viewing LCR for people with more than one calling that provides access.

eblood66 wrote:

rchomskis wrote:Same problem here in Lithuania. In one of our branches we have a brother whose first calling is "Branch Presidency Second Counselor" and second calling is "Branch Clerk". When he tries to move records out to another unit he received "Access Denied" error. Maybe the system only accepts his first calling when deciding if he is eligible to perform the action? But, as mentioned, he is also a branch clerk and this calling is recorded on his membership file and therefore he should be able to have access to perform the moving out of records...

I haven't seen it personally but I believe there should be a drop down box somewhere that lets you choose which calling to use when viewing LCR for people with more than one calling that provides access.

That's correct. I have both a Ward and a Stake calling and depending on what l need to do I select the appropriate calling.

There is a yellow drop-down menu at the top right of the page that will allow him to select the appropriate role. When a member has more than one calling, it appears next to the ward and stake name and unit number just below the menu.

aebrown wrote:[Moderator note: I moved this post from General Clerk Discussions into an existing topic for this issue.]

jbramble wrote:I am the 2nd counselor the in our bishopric and when I try to request records for individuals in Lds.org it says access denied? I was able to request records in MLS but now I can't. What do i need to do to have access? When I use MLS it takes me to Lds.org and I have no way of requesting records.

As you can see by reviewing the posts in this topic, there's nothing you can do to have access for moving records. That is not a function assigned to bishopric counselors in the Handbook.

What is the process to get this policy changed? I understand the concept but this leads to Bishops simply giving their passwords to their counselors and having them do the records request. The brethren keep telling Bishops to delegate responsibilities to counselors where possible. So, they give them their passwords and have their counselors handle it.

Serving in a YSA ward, this function is a large part of our record keeping. Even with the most faithful clerks, there are times when students go on breaks or are out of town and we simply can't wait for them to come back to request a record. Especially when temple recommend or other situations arise that require a record.

On a side not, is it possible for the Stake to add the counselor as an assistant membership clerk which will give them access?

Thanks

richreid402 wrote:What is the process to get this policy changed?

The process is to get your stake president to bring it up with his area leader who will, if he agrees, bring it up with the appropriate general authorities.

richreid402 wrote:On a side not, is it possible for the Stake to add the counselor as an assistant membership clerk which will give them access?

Certainly if the stake wishes to call a counselor to be an assistant clerk that can be done. I think this a much better solution for less common circumstances than to change the policy because it makes it clear when a counselor is taking on clerk responsibilities and makes sure that the appropriate priesthood leaders (the stake presidency in this case) are aware.

richreid402 wrote:On a side not, is it possible for the Stake to add the counselor as an assistant membership clerk which will give them access?

With the stake's approval, the ward can add a counselor as an assistant membership clerk.

richreid402 wrote:The brethren keep telling Bishops to delegate responsibilities to counselors where possible.

In this case, the job is delegated to the clerk(s). Between the Ward Clerk and Assistant Membership Clerk, there's redundancy for that function. Generally, it's only in extraordinary situations that the bishop would be moving records anyway.

eblood66 wrote:

richreid402 wrote:What is the process to get this policy changed?

The process is to get your stake president to bring it up with his area leader who will, if he agrees, bring it up with the appropriate general authorities.

But don't hold your breath, because then that would be a policy change across all wards - which is likely to cause more problems than it fixes. (Too many cooks in the kitchen syndrome.)

Thanks for the replies. I will ask our Bishop to talk to the Stake and see how they want to move forward. Ideally, the Bishop would be able to grant access to his counselors for some specific tasks they normally don't have access to. That allows for flexibility as well as letting the person with the keys make the determination how to delegate the tasks.

richreid402 wrote:That allows for flexibility as well as letting the person with the keys make the determination how to delegate the tasks.

I think part of the point of the policy is that the bishop doesn't actually have the keys to delegate some record keeping tasks to a counselor just as he can't delegate tasks like temple recommend interviews or taking donations to a clerk. Each has their own stewardship. The stake president is the one who determines who is able to perform those tasks (as recommended by the bishop of course). The bishop can then delegate within those limits.

richreid402 wrote:What is the process to get this policy changed?

Ask your bishop to convince the stake president to convince the area authority to convince the area presidency to convince the Quorum of the Twelve to convince the First Presidency to change the Handbook.

richreid402 wrote:I understand the concept but this leads to Bishops simply giving their passwords to their counselors and having them do the records request.

That's obviously a very bad choice. I hope no bishop would ever consider doing that.

richreid402 wrote: The brethren keep telling Bishops to delegate responsibilities to counselors where possible. So, they give them their passwords and have their counselors handle it.

I don't think the brethren are saying that. The message I hear is that bishops should delegate responsibilities to the appropriate people where possible. There's no reason that counselors have a monopoly on receiving delegation from the bishop. Some responsibilities are delegated to the RS president, others to the EQ President or HPGL, and others to clerks. Responsibilities need to be delegated to the appropriate person, and in the case of moving records, the appropriate people are the clerks.

richreid402 wrote:Serving in a YSA ward, this function is a large part of our record keeping. Even with the most faithful clerks, there are times when students go on breaks or are out of town and we simply can't wait for them to come back to request a record. Especially when temple recommend or other situations arise that require a record.

Then it sounds like the bishop needs to have more clerks called. In addition to the ward clerk, there can be one or more membership clerks, and one or more assistant clerks, all of whom would be authorized to move membership records.

richreid402 wrote:On a side note, is it possible for the Stake to add the counselor as an assistant membership clerk which will give them access?

It is certainly possible for the stake president to call someone to serve as an assistant clerk, even if that person happens to be serving in another calling such as bishopric counselor. I would hope that a stake president would only do that if that person truly is serving in the calling, and not just as a way to get around restrictions put in the software tools to comply with policy.

aebrown wrote:

richreid402 wrote:What is the process to get this policy changed?

Ask your bishop to convince the stake president to convince the area authority to convince the area presidency to convince the Quorum of the Twelve to convince the First Presidency to change the Handbook.

Can you please provide the section of the handbook that clearly outlines that Counselors cannot be assigned the task of requesting or updating records? 13.4.1 states that a bishop "may assign his counselors and clerks to do much of this work under his direction."

I see lots of references pointing to what clerks may be assigned to do but nothing that points to what a counselor may not do.

I am not trying to go against policy of the Brethren, I am simply trying to ascertain what is the real intent and policy and what has been interpreted as a policy because it is not stated directly.

PS. Your reply comes across in very condescending tone. We are simply servants trying to carry out His work.

richreid402 wrote: Can you please provide the section of the handbook that clearly outlines that Counselors cannot be assigned the task of requesting or updating records? 13.4.1 states that a bishop "may assign his counselors and clerks to do much of this work under his direction."

I would start with Handbook 1 13.6 5th paragraph.

Also the priesthood department's direction to the developers of LCR have determined the current access rights.