condenser microphone on the stage

Howdy. My wife and I are planning on using a condenser microphone for an activity next week. Condenser mics essentially pick up all the noise around them instead of sound projected directly into the mic.. For that reason, if there is a speaker close by it will hear itself and cause horrible feedback. I tried the condenser mic in the primary room and since the speakers are in the same room as the mic i got feedback. I can however take the mic 2 ft out of the room and it works fine... If i am to play it on the stage do you think i will have the same problem? I see speakers on the ceiling on the stage, but i dont know if those project sound from the mics on the stage itself, or are connected to the chapel.

Basically, the question is: Given a standard meetinghouse sound setup, do you think we will have feedback issues on the stage with a condenser mic (do the speakers on the stage project sound from the actual mics on the stage?

Thakns

jazzjune18 wrote:Condenser mics essentially pick up all the noise around them instead of sound projected directly into the mic.

That's the description of a omnidirectional mic rather than the technology used.

The sound system is generally set up for the mics issued by the FM group. Other mics might be too "hot" and cause feadback, or too weak. If your mic was too hot for the primary room, I think there's a good chance it's too hot for the cultural hall.

Russell, Thank you for the prompt reply. You are correct, omnidirectional. Thank you for the opinion. I want to try it out in the gym, but they are redoing the floors. I think you are probably right about the stage being too hot. Will find out for sure in the next couple days. FM group? I am not sure who to contact in the stake about acquiring microphones for our activity. Who is that generally?

Thanks again for your help,

Mark

jazzjune18 wrote:FM group? I am not sure who to contact in the stake about acquiring microphones for our activity. Who is that generally?

Your primary contact in the stake should probably be either the stake technology specialist (an assistant stake clerk assigned to oversee technology in the stake), or the Physical Facilities Representative (PFR), who is the high councilor assigned to interface with the Facilities Management (FM) group.

Either of them should know what microphones are currently available within the stake, or if more mics need to be acquired, they can work with the FM group to see if they can be acquired on a temporary or permanent basis, according to Church policies and availability of funds.

aebrown wrote:Your primary contact in the stake should probably be either the stake technology specialist (an assistant stake clerk assigned to oversee technology in the stake), or the Physical Facilities Representative (PFR), who is the high councilor assigned to interface with the Facilities Management (FM) group.

Before that, you might inquire with a member of the ward bishopric as I'm sure they know about the mics available in the building.

I'm logged in, might as well respond. Our Stake Center was built in 1958 and has the updated audio system; however, I believe I remember seeing a volume control knob up high on the wall on stage left, as there are two speakers on stage. You might also be using the wrong mics- try the library.

Our stake center cultural hall is one big room, and with the building setup, it should produce sound from the cultural hall mic inputs, since the mic inputs are on the stage. If a white control panel is in the same partitioned room as the stage, it needs to be on.

If all the chapel and cultural hall partitions/ room dividers are open or certain controls, button, knobs are pressed, the sound from the chapel should continue to the cultural hall and stage.

Look under the topic sound systems.
https://www.lds.org/callings/melchizede ... o?lang=eng

dwilton1 wrote:I believe I remember seeing a volume control knob up high on the wall on stage left, as there are two speakers on stage.

I believe that control only adjusts the stage speakers.

Yes,

If all mics are producing too much feedback, then you might want to turn the volume down on the stage (if available).

Basically, the question is: Given a standard meetinghouse sound setup, do you think we will have feedback issues on the stage with a condenser mic (do the speakers on the stage project sound from the actual mics on the stage?

It depends on what kind of condenser microphone you are using.

From my experience setting up sound reinforcement in many church cultural halls, lavalier microphones (a condenser mic) do not provide adequate gain, because they pick up sound in every direction (omni-directional), so sound will easily feedback from the cultural hall speakers.

I suggest using a head-worn microphone for maximum sound (gain) in these situations. A good example of this is the Audio Technica ATW-2192a-TH headworn system (link).

On the other hand, some condenser microphones are directional, so they tend to pick up sound only where they are pointing (uni-directional). I have used these types (link) of microphones in both chapels and cultural halls with good success.

Note: Any additional microphones that are "on", will limit the amount of gain before you get feedback. To maximize gain, turn off any microphones that are not in use.

In our buildings each microphone channel gain control is set up for a specific voltage/sound level. Microphone families, dynamic versus condenser, have different voltage outputs for a given sound level. For example, the dynamic type Shure SM58 puts out 1.85mv versus a condenser type Audio Technica AT4022 at 19.9mv. If the channel gain is optimized for dynamic microphones (typically), then a condenser microphone will be 10 times louder. With a mix of dynamic and condenser microphones you will never balance the sensitivities using only the building master volume control.
A solution is to use a mixer that can be properly setup for each microphone type and then drive the building system via a 'crab'. I prefer condenser microphones.
Unfortunately, speaker placement is frequently not optimized for stage productions but for overflow conference sound. An offending speaker was disconnected to allow for proper stage sound capture. (Please hold your righteous indignation. It was a long time ago.)

quintonrhq wrote:A solution is to use a mixer that can be properly setup for each microphone type and then drive the building system via a 'crab'.

Or use a mixer that has a XLR microphone-level output and skip the crab.

I know this is a bit of a old thread, but I'll add - if you are micing a stage, the actors will still have to project. The actors will have to reach the first few rows of the audience on raw lung power. The mics will take that a carry it to the back of the hall. They won't do magic.

michaelfish wrote:I suggest using a head-worn microphone for maximum sound (gain) in these situations.

This is the only thing that will give you the performance most members think of when they learn they'll have microphones - the ability to conversational voices and have the entire room hear it. But it's not in the FM catalog. You're on your own for obtaining them.

For Stake Conference I prefer to use two spaced apart pencil condenser mics to brdcast the choir to other wards and to help carry the choir sound to the rearmost listeners in the building. I use battery operated Tascams which are not dependent on the apron phantom power which is only 15v and not suitable for standard 48v mics. Can those apron sockets be remotely switched from 15v to 48v to accomodate condenser cardioid mics we might purchase for this sole purpose? Dynamic mikes lack sensitivity at distance of over a few feet, while my old Tascams serve quite well, and do not upset the system gain structure.

ronwickman wrote:Can those apron sockets be remotely switched from 15v to 48v

I highly doubt it. The switch is either in the locked cabinet, or part of the programming. Either way, I don't think there an provision for remote control or update.