Wireless Microphones

It seems there has been an increase in demand for the wireless microphones in the wards. Interestingly they usually need both a hand held and a lavalier system. To protect the wireless systems I leave them hidden in the stake office. I am slowly starting to trust the members and leaving more equipment in the libraries. My question is if there is a wireless system that has both lapel and hand held that the church recommends. Audio-technical has some but they appear very expensive. Perhaps it would be better to just buy them separate. Your thoughts...
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wls_s ... index.html

Check with your FM Group through your physical facilities representative (an assignment for a high councilor). They have catalogs and usually get discounts. They also are responsible for these types of furnishings for the meetinghouses.

I've seen wireless mic "packs" that will allow the connection of different types of mics (like lavalier or headset), but nothing that would convert to a handheld.

We have an Audio Technica series 2000 system, which I believe was provided by facilities and was the standard recommended unit. It initially came with just a lavalier, but we purchased the matching handheld mic for it as well. (You can only use one at a time.) The case had slots for both.

It is actually one of the more reasonably-priced professional quality systems and I've been pleased with it. I would hesitate to get anything less.

Yes, receivers can be used with any compatible microphone. I thought the OP was looking for a single transmitter that did both handheld and something else.

As for wireless, you get what you pay for. I know someone who got a Nandy for their production. They'd have odd sounds in the middle of the show. Not sure where it was coming from, but I'm guessing the receivers where having trouble dealing with some random signals in the area.

We've use an Audio Technica that was provided by FM. Never a problem.

We've had similar experiences, both with the increase in requests and the concerns about lost equipment. We have had a body pack and lav wireless mic disappear when given to trusted individuals. Twice.

One solution we were using was a wired lav mic setup -- it was nice for Sunday School in the chapel or Cultural Hall. I don't have the model handy, but it was essentially a lav mic into a mic pre-amp with an XLR connecter. Instead of the wireless body pack, the preamp plugs into a standard XLR cable. In addition to not worrying about batteries and the expensive body pack transmitter (and proximity to the receiver), it was easier to let the members use. Unfortunately, that unit also disappeared.

sgcurtis wrote:We've had similar experiences, both with the increase in requests and the concerns about lost equipment. We have had a body pack and lav wireless mic disappear when given to trusted individuals. Twice.

With the receiver?

No. We don't ever give the members the receiver.

gregcamie wrote:It seems there has been an increase in demand for the wireless microphones in the wards.

This I think is the largest challenge of technology. What is it we really need? I don't ever remember anyone screaming for an tablet PC, until after apple introduced it to the world, and now everyone needs one.

Sorry the comment really is on a larger societal trend in general than just wireless microphones in LDS meetinghouses.

The only "demand" I have seen for wireless microphones is from visiting AAS and GAs during stake conference. Nobody in our stake ever asks for them. Most folks don't realize that our FM has six of them to loan out, usually for stake conferences.

Before the RS room was air-conditioned, we didn't have a PA in there. But those first AC units were noisy, so the PA was added. Now we have quiet units, and with the carpeting and all, it's a "dead" room. But they still have a PA. And we get complaints that people can't hear if someone isn't using the mic. Part of it may be the difference between an instructor that uses the mic and a participant that doesn't - but the complaints are there.

Instructors don't want to be trapped behind the stand (we use RS for Sunday School), and they're wanting wireless to keep from tripping over the cords.

I've checked with FM. We can get wireless lavalier (uck!), but for some reasons, not wireless headsets. I detest lavalier for sound reinforcement as you can't get the same volume out of them. (Handhelds and headsets are closer to the mouth.)

Granted, Joseph Smith didn't have a mic, much less a wireless one. And thanks to PAs in general, adults have lost their "outside" voice. But today affordable technology exists, so society's standards change.

russellhltn wrote: I've checked with FM. We can get wireless lavalier (uck!), but for some reasons, not wireless headsets. I detest lavalier for sound reinforcement as you can't get the same volume out of them. (Handhelds and headsets are closer to the mouth.)

This is true, and it may change, but in the foreseeable future, this is what has been approved, so if it does change, don't expect it to do so anytime soon.

If the problems persist you, could try to get them to use the Wired Lapel Mic, after that, the wireless seams like a dream.

StevePoulsen wrote:If the problems persist you, could try to get them to use the Wired Lapel Mic, after that, the wireless seams like a dream.

We've got wired lapel lying around. Not sure who ordered them. I guess we could try it and see if lapel even works. My concern is that it will increase the trip hazard. It's easy to forget a lapel and start walking around. Currently, they're using a hand-held which I think reminds them there's a cord attached.

You're the one to ask. Is there a reason the RS room has the two mic jacks connected as a "Y" instead of going to individual mic inputs on the amp? Each connector has it's own wire going to the amp, but for some reason they're tied together on the back of the amp instead of separate inputs. The reason I ask is if we put a mic in the instructor, I think they're still going to want a handheld mic for the participants.

Getting back to headsets, we did have a sister who felt strongly enough about it that she paid out of her own pocket to get 4 of them for a stake RS musical skit they put on. It made all the difference.

russellhltn wrote:

StevePoulsen wrote:If the problems persist you, could try to get them to use the Wired Lapel Mic, after that, the wireless seams like a dream.

We've got wired lapel lying around. Not sure who ordered them. I guess we could try it and see if lapel even works. My concern is that it will increase the trip hazard. It's easy to forget a lapel and start walking around. Currently, they're using a hand-held which I think reminds them there's a cord attached.

You're the one to ask. Is there a reason the RS room has the two mic jacks connected as a "Y" instead of going to individual mic inputs on the amp? Each connector has it's own wire going to the amp, but for some reason they're tied together on the back of the amp instead of separate inputs. The reason I ask is if we put a mic in the instructor, I think they're still going to want a handheld mic for the participants.

Getting back to headsets, we did have a sister who felt strongly enough about it that she paid out of her own pocket to get 4 of them for a stake RS musical skit they put on. It made all the difference.

I posted a comment already, but as soon as a pushed submit, I thought better of it. so here's attempt two, which is hopefully a better on brevity and clarity.

As the various design teams throughout the world design meetinghouses, we attempt to:
Meet the needs of the members, Be mindful of the widow's mite (both in current and future costs), and maintain high standards for building quality, which present a standard image and meet local and international building codes.

With these in mind we try to envision everything a member might want to do with a building, and then we step back and decide what most want to do, and from that what is it that is most central and important. In every case, this involves choices, we could have more mic jacks, or wireless systems, but would have to give something up, perhaps wi-fi, or a window.

Now that I've addresses the generalities of the design, I think we can tackle the specif questions you have.
If we had wireless headsets, we wouldn't have lapels, and by and large people are more comfortable with lapels than a headset, so we have headset options.

The RS room jacks are paralled, because we don't have the controls in the room to make use of discrete mic inputs, and adding those is a large cost relative to the room and the system. In the end, the room was not intended to have both a audience, and presenter mic. That being said, even thought the inputs are paralleled, they can both be used at the same time, though you may have to turn down the room volume to eliminate some feed back issues.

russellhltn wrote:

StevePoulsen wrote:If the problems persist you, could try to get them to use the Wired Lapel Mic, after that, the wireless seams like a dream.

We've got wired lapel lying around. Not sure who ordered them. I guess we could try it and see if lapel even works. My concern is that it will increase the trip hazard. It's easy to forget a lapel and start walking around. Currently, they're using a hand-held which I think reminds them there's a cord attached.

Oops, I should have clarified this better, The sound quality is not going to be better with the corded mic, just the user experience. Some times what we need to be happy with what we have is to see clearly what we could have instead.

StevePoulsen wrote:

russellhltn wrote:You're the one to ask. Is there a reason the RS room has the two mic jacks connected as a "Y" instead of going to individual mic inputs on the amp? Each connector has it's own wire going to the amp, but for some reason they're tied together on the back of the amp instead of separate inputs. The reason I ask is if we put a mic in the instructor, I think they're still going to want a handheld mic for the participants.

The RS room jacks are paralled, because we don't have the controls in the room to make use of discrete mic inputs, and adding those is a large cost relative to the room and the system. In the end, the room was not intended to have both a audience, and presenter mic. That being said, even thought the inputs are paralleled, they can both be used at the same time, though you may have to turn down the room volume to eliminate some feed back issues.

Separate mic controls would be nice, but I see that as a separate feature. I thought perhaps someone was being clever in that two identical mics being plugged in would likely result in a 3dB drop - just about what you'd need to avoid feedback with a second mic. The problem comes when you have two non-identical mics, one could be impacted more than the other, while any feedback issue could be fixed with the existing system volume control.

I must not be understanding something. We don't have controls on any mic inputs, the controls are in the pre-amp (which we can't control). And you should never have two inputs connected together.

Every stake conference for the past several years the visiting authority has requested a wireless mic, and often they don't request it ahead of time so we're scrambling. They just assume we'll have one. I don't know why there is such a big disconnect between the side that says what we should have (ecclesiastical, MHT, etc) and the people who pay for and install it (facilities). OK, I do know, but I don't agree that it should exist.

We have several old wired lavaliers and one is used often for RS as they have some older sisters with hearing problems and a very quiet teacher, but they are very cumbersome and the speaker tends to trip over the cord since they don't have the control you have when you're holding a mic.

As I mentioned in my previous post I bought a wireless handheld that went with the wireless lavalier we already had. In the previous conference a visiting GA was walking around the congregation asking people questions and it was awkward for him to hold the lavalier. Since we didn't get a new receiver it wasn't as expensive. I knew one existed as the case already had an extra spot for the handheld. I don't think we can use them both simultaneously though -- or can we? I haven't tried, just assumed we couldn't.

The one thing I hate about the AT2000 is that the XLR output and the 1/4" output are both line level. So you have to do a careful sound check and adjust the output level. Really stupid design; I've worked with many wireless systems and all were line level on the 1/4" and mic level on the XLR.

Really stupid design; I've worked with many wireless systems and all were line level on the 1/4" and mic level on the XLR.

I don't agree.

With regards to the Audio Technica 2000 receiver, the ability to push the XLR output control to +9 dBV is an advantage.

Some building's microphone jacks are preset to a low level, due to the buildings 'hot' mics.

The receiver's ability to adjust the output beyond line level compensates for this issue, allowing for proper gain of the wireless microphone.

I would add my recommendation regarding the Audio-Technica ATW2000 series. The units are AA battery driven (+). Have a good number of UHF channels. Excellent range and audio performance. Compatible XLR connection into the building system without a crab. Lowest price point for this capability. You can pay less but a poor product is no bargain. I have purchased 6 of these over the years, 4 lavaliers and 2 handhelds for several buildings. This is just a step below a full theatre system.
There is certainly a mission creep with wireless. A local stake was recently asked to provide 4 lavaliers and 4 handhelds for a colonel authority training session. Visitors somehow assume that all of this is on hand and ready to go. We try and discourage the 'Jerry Springer' style of audience interaction.

Thank You for the recommendations, we are constantly looking at the equipment that we provide.

In regards tot he equipment requested by the general authorities, I would encourage you to contact your FM group, they have been given specific direction on how and when to provide this equipment, as well as reporting methods for its usage. They also have the ability to reduce the costs by sharing the extra equipment over a larger area, instead of purchasing the same equipment over and over for every meetinghouse a GA might visit.

Correct. Our FM has about six wireless microphones, which he loans to each stake in the metro area whenever they have a visiting GA for stake conference.

For the record, these are the instructions that the FM groups have received. Also a stake is authorized to have one wireless microphone. Steve Poulsen provided this link:
http://aec.ldschurch.org/aec/standard_p ... -10-11.pdf , extracting item #4.

Item 4: Requests for Technical Equipment for Ecclesiastical Training

General authorities or area seventies on occasion make requests for non-approved technical equipment and/or for quantities of equipment above the authorized amount, for use in training. The Managing Director of MFD has commented that the First Presidency and the Presiding Bishopric are not supportive of extensive retrofits to our meetinghouses or the purchase of excessive equipment for infrequent or one-time occasions.

Often those making the requests do not comprehend the cost involved. Recognizing the pressure FMs are under when out of boundary requests are made by a stake president, and that the pressure is even more intense when the request comes from a general authority or area seventy, the recommendation is that RFMs and FMS work with the APFM and DTA to address specific out of boundary requests.

There are a lot of people who have hearing loss, and will suffer silently. It is esp. difficult for them if there are people or kids who are noisy nearby--even if they have hearing aids. https://www.ncoa.org/adviser/hearing-ai ... tatistics/

A dream come true IMO!

The problem:
I've been an A/V tech for our ward, for our Stake, and have been used as a tech expert by ward and Stake members for many years. I've always thought the mic systems we've used in our church buildings were big, clunky, and often frustrating. The wireless microphones (including the Audio Technica ones provided by FM) were crackly, spotty, and wasted hundreds of dollars in batteries over a few years. Wired microphones ALWAYS had issues with crackling, bad cables and connections causing mics to cut out completely - and clumsy trying to run around the room for people making comments or reading out loud, etc. Our ward bought its own wireless mics that eventually had to be phased out due to transmitting on a frequency no longer authorized for this kind of use. The replacement wireless mics cut out when further than 30 feet from the receiver. What a pain all of this tech mess is.

The solution:
Our ward's Relief Society purchased the DJI Mic Minis. The DJI Mic Mini standard product comes with the receiver, two mics, a charging-station case, and a couple of adapter cables. I hooked their receiver up to the EMTech EJ-8 converter we already had in our building, and plugged it into the XLR jack in the wall. SUCCESS!! Now we have a compact wireless-mic system that literally cost under $100. it sounds amazing. With a little more research, I found you may also be able to connect the receiver to a Rode VXLR+, which costs $30. So, total solution for two tiny microphones and the adapter/converter can literally be $100.

The DJI Mic 2s are mics I already own and tried out in the Relief Society room as well (I think I got them for $189 on sale on Amazon). They work fantastic. They come with the receiver, two mics, and a charging-station case. The advantage of these over the Mic Minis is that each transmitter has a 1/8-inch/3.5mm jack on them. I plugged my Sennheiser MKE600 (a high-end professional studio/shotgun mic) into it and instantly had studio-quality audio that was now wireless! No need to run wires and to tape stuff down for special musical numbers, etc. You can also use the jack on the transmitters to run a lavalier mic for additional concealment.

The DJI Mic 3 costs $250 on sale, which is over double the price of the DJI Mic Mini currently, but not only comes with the receiver, two mics, and a charging-station case, but also has the ability to connect two additional DJI-brand Mics (including the Mic 2s or Mic Minis) for a total of four microphones!! Say hello to easy-setup panel discussions, General Authority wireless-mic requests, etc.

All of these microphones are tiny (less than about 1.5 inches x 1 inch or smaller). They can be clipped onto a lapel or dress or attached via the included magnet. Their range/distance between the receiver and mics is incredible - even through a concrete wall or two)! They're rechargeable, last up to 10 hours each, and automatically charge in the case. You can buy replacement mics individually if one breaks, gets wet, etc without buying a whole new set. You can connect them to cameras, computers, phones, and (with adapter/converter) the XLR jacks in the wall.

Setup:
1. Remove the receiver from the charging case. It turns on automatically.
2. Remove the mics/transmitters you want to use from the charging case. They turn on and sync automatically to the receiver.
3. On the receiver, turn the gain all the way down to -12. If you have the Mic 2s or Mic 3s, also turn the volume all the way down on the receiver for each microphone volume displayed on the little touch screen (it's separate from the volume).
4. On the wall, turn the mic volume all the way down.
5. Plug the XLR converter/adapter into the XLR jack in the wall.
6. Plug the receiver's headphone jack or line-level jack into the 3.5-mm/1/8-inch jack on the converter/adapter.
7. Put on one of the mics and talk while directly under a speaker in the room while having someone gradually turn up the sound on the Relief Society-room wall or at the pulpit. If you start to hear echo or feedback, inch the volume back down a little.
8. If the audio on the wall is all the way turned up and audio is still too quiet, then begin turning up the sound on the EJ-8 convertor or other converter. If you start to hear echo or feedback, inch the volume back down a little.
9. If the audio is still too quiet, then start turning up the mic volume on the receiver.

From there, you can fine-tune the audio levels on the receiver gain and volume and on the converter if a volume level knob exists there until you have the best sound with no echo or feedback.

You post reminds me of what showed up at a couple of wards: Joyo MW-1

It has one job: replace the microphone cable. One end plugs into the wall, the other into the bottom of a standard XLR microphone. There's only two controls: Power and channel. No gain controls to mess up. It just works. Even our technically-challenged Sunday School president can set it up (once I showed him how to "press and hold" to power off.) No noise like you sometimes get with analog systems and no noticeable delay.

Amazon link for illustration/convenience:
https://www.amazon.com/JOYO-Microphone- ... B0GV4JKPTC