Out-of-Warranty Copiers

In my stake we have about 5 copiers that went out of warranty in August 2011 - purchase date of these copiers was Aug 2006, manufacture date is 2004. I've attempted to have the copiers replaced in both 2012 and 2013, but the FMG is telling me they only replace them when they need to.

I asked a question to my FMG about using non-manufacturer drum and toner since they were 2 years out-of-warranty anyway and could save a ward a couple hundred dollars each year, even significantly more in some locations.

I was then told that the FMG will pay for the Drum and to log a ticket for that, but that I needed to order manufacturer toner because a technician could always point back to that as a cause of a problem.

Is there any way to get this matrix of rules that is so complicated that you nearly need a full-time job and a Urim and Thummim just to keep track of the changing landscape of what FMG is paying for, when they are paying for it?

I notice this forum which used to contain some good information about the copiers now has it taken down and there is no information available to an STS anymore about what those rules are?

I always order Xerox drums and toner cartridges from Staples for our Xerox M20 in the stake offices. Recently, all the rollers started failing. I called my FM, and the office assistant said they had no procedures for servicing or replacing office copiers.

I called the phone number on the service tag, and gave them the serial number. They told me the copier was out of warranty. They said they would be happy to put me in contact with an authorized Xerox service center in my area. I told them I already had that information, so our conversation was over.

I loaded the copier into my car, and dropped it off at an authorized service center. They charged us about $250 for a set of rollers, plus another $200 or so for a fuser module. I called the FM and told the office assistant the grand total for the repairs, and she called the service center and gave them a credit card number to charge, so the stake didn't pay a dime.

I happily picked up the copier and returned it to the stake offices. This repair was cheaper than purchasing a new copier. However, this will probably be the last repair job for this copier. I expect we will receive new copiers in a few more years.

I can tell you that in my FMG, this year for a similar situation, the FMG contracted a technician, the total there was $410. So, here we have two exact situations where the FMG did different things, I happen to know Dana is in the same Area and likely the same Regional office as my FMG - so their instructions would likely be the same up to a certain management layer.

All I really want are the rules, all I really want is to know how to plan for the future. I'd like to provide intelligent, reasonable, planning for my Stake President so he can do intelligent, reasonable planning for the future.

New story. During a recent ward conference, a member of the stake presidency asked me to check out the copier in the meetinghouse library, even though it was not my responsibility as stake clerk, or as STS. The "copier" turned out to be an hp LaserJet M3027x MFP, manufactured in October 2007, with a warranty that had expired in March 2009.

I interviewed the librarians, who said it had been misfeeding from the day it was installed. When I turned the printer around to get the serial number, I found a handwritten note detailing several frustrating defects. If the librarians had complained to the bishopric, their complaints were likely not passed along to either the stake PFR or the FM. I don't think anyone in that ward had ever considered calling the phone number on the service sticker.

I told the new FM about it, and he said he would replace it. Later, he asked me to call the number on the service sticker to see if they would repair it under warranty. No dice. So he is sending someone out to take the MFP to a service center for a repair estimate.

I asked, for future reference, how we should handle such incidents in the future. He said that if it is covered by warranty, the ward leaders should call for service. If it is out of warranty, then ward leaders (or the stake PFR) should contact the FM office for repair or replacement.

drepouille wrote:During a recent ward conference, a member of the stake presidency asked me to check out the copier in the meetinghouse library, even though it was not my responsibility as stake clerk, or as STS.

I'm not sure what it was, but it is a STS responsibility now: Meetinghouse Technology Roles and Responsibilities. See 4.5

It is interesting that meetinghouse libraries are not mentioned. So when it refers to "Church computers, printers, and copiers" does it pertain only to those in clerks' offices, or does it include meetinghouse libraries?

drepouille wrote:It is interesting that meetinghouse libraries are not mentioned. So when it refers to "Church computers, printers, and copiers" does it pertain only to those in clerks' offices, or does it include meetinghouse libraries?

If you follow the link for "copiers" it becomes pretty clear (because it also mentions librarians) that it's talking about all copiers in meetinghouses.

Wards and Stakes can obtain service and supplies by calling 1-800-537-7192. Using the interactive phone menu, the caller will be connected to a service provider. In some cases, the caller will be connected to a third-party provider (such as Xerox or Staples). When this is the case, the third-party provider will know that the call is from a Church unit and will provide service and billing according to established contracts.

This was not my experience with that telephone number. When I pressed #4 for hp, I was transferred to a generic hp customer support. They asked me the name of my company, and the address.

As an FM Group, we pay for yearly service agreements after the warranty has expired as long as the copier is in good condition and does not meet the standards for replacement.

I believe my FM decided to allow factory warranties to expire, and just pay for repairs as necessary. That plan may actually be cheaper in the long run, although it tends to be more hassle for the local units. I personally don't mind taking a broken copier to my local service center, as long as the FM pays for the repair.
Extended warranties are a big business. Most people would be better off if they pocketed the extended warranty premiums, and just paid for repairs out of pocket.

drepouille wrote:I believe my FM decided to allow factory warranties to expire, and just pay for repairs as necessary. That plan may actually be cheaper in the long run, although it tends to be more hassle for the local units. I personally don't mind taking a broken copier to my local service center, as long as the FM pays for the repair.
Extended warranties are a big business. Most people would be better off if they pocketed the extended warranty premiums, and just paid for repairs out of pocket.

Our stake has 9 meetinghouses and many of them rural, this is not a situation that works well for us.

The church has a gazillion dollar need in this area. Some FM's that replace printers every 5 years (replacement in the 6th year) Some wait until they break, this itself, particularly in the US and Canada where we can establish easily followed policies and instructions, something that makes no sense.

This is untenable - I realize that maybe it's ok for a certain stake here and there, but IT MAKES NO SENSE WHAT-SO-EVER to have a different policy for each FMG. No matter what people say, it makes no sense when we have national accounts and a per/meetinghouse expense item. Please don't tell me it saves money, or whatever, IT DOESNT save money all the time because some FMG are replacing printers/copiers in the 5 year cycle, and others are waiting until they die. The Presiding Bishopric knows that a printer/copier is purchased and maintained for 5 years and then can be replaced and that is the actual policy that is issued. When an FMG chooses to do something different than that, the only people affected are ward members who purchase and replace drums and toners regularly and more often as these OLD USED machines become less and less efficient.

Again, this transfers expenses from FMG to Wards/Branches, It is a formula that AS a printer ages, it is less efficient over time requiring more money spent on operational options.

Other issues are when a printer that is out of warranty is broken, it is a SURPRISE expense to the FMG, that means that when they have to replace it, they must take the money destined for something else. Rather than PLANNING and BUDGETING for a replacement, they MUST take money from something else (many times this is another STAKE need).

Unless you've dealt with this in detail, you don't see it. The FMG has a very good way of telling you that the budget was cut, or we were asked to freeze spending, but what that usually means is, we had unanticipated expenses in some other area or another stake and you don't get your stuff that you planned and budgeted for sometimes 2 years previously.

All I really ask is that a policy be put in place, and that policy is followed and is well known so Stake Presidents and Stake PFR's follow the same information that the FMG gets.