YouTube Videos

I see that the church has a page on YouTube called FamilySearch. On the page it has numberous YouTube videos relative to FamilySearch and associated efforts. One in particular that I am interested in is "Family Search Indexing: How it Works." I had it in a presentation (via hyperlink) that I had prepared for a presentation to my Ward and when I tried to play it in the Ward building, it would not play. It is because YouTube is a blocked site from what I am told. How do we get a copy of this to download onto our computer so that we can show it or how else do we get access to it? Why does the Church have videos on Youtube that we cannot access for the same use as what it is being used for on the YouTube page? Please help.
Walter Teixeira
akatex@earthlink.net

That same video is available on a FamilySearch.org page here. I didn't see a download link, but at least you can play it from there in a meetinghouse.

The Church puts videos on YouTube to increase the visibility of the videos -- it's a great place to help people see helpful video content who would be less likely to see it on FamilySearch.org or LDS.org.

I agree that the Church policy of blocking YouTube in meetinghouses can be awkward at times, but I'm sure that the decision to block YouTube was carefully considered. We just have to work around it. Most videos can be found on a Church website, which will allow you to play or download the video.

Thank you. And I did look around for it after I had the problem and couldn't find it anywhere else. However, I don't have the resources that you do. I'm glad to see it other places where we can play it. Is it possible to get a downloaded copy somewhere? Even trying to stream at the meeting house can cause some delays and rough play due to the limited bandwidth.

People on these forums often say that if the church doesn't put a download button next to a video then they don't have the necessary copyright to offer it for download. But the church never really gives a reason, so that's just an assumption. People have also said, on these forums, that any attempt to download the video anyway would be illegal… which is also an assumption and not necessarily supported by the Rights and Use Information page for LDS.org which says, in part…

All material found at this site (including visuals, text, icons, displays, databases, media, and general information) is owned or licensed by us. You may view, download, and print material from this site only for your personal, noncommercial use unless otherwise indicated.

There may be several reasons why a video doesn't have a download link, including agreements made with the people who made and/or appeared in the video at the time the video was produced. (Sometimes actors are supposed to be paid again each time their work is released in a new medium, for example.) But it's highly doubtful that the church doesn't control the copyright for church-produced videos.

The fact is, anything that is posted on the Internet can be captured and saved to someone else's computer. No matter how hard someone tries to stop that, someone else will always know how to do it. (Just look at the news about the NSA...and yet the authorities threaten to come after us for piracy!) I'm not going to advocate methods of downloading from YouTube here on this forum but, in different discussions, specific software has been mentioned. YouTube often changes to try to stop that software from working but then the software is updated and it's business as usual again. (But, of course, I am not officially advocating this activity.)

mrrad wrote:People on these forums often say that if the church doesn't put a download button next to a video then they don't have the necessary copyright to offer it for download. But the church never really gives a reason, so that's just an assumption.

It's not an assumption in my case. I have received specific communication from the Mormon Channel team, which I quote in part here:

Yes, there are legal restrictions on this content. Many of the actors in Finding Faith in Christ are from the Screen Actors Guild, and as part of their contracts this video is licensed for streaming or purchase on DVD only. Downloading is restricted. When any footage from Finding Faith in Christ is used in other videos, those videos are by default also limited to streaming.

That seems pretty clear to me. That response was in the context of the "Finding Faith in Christ" videos, but the principle clearly applies to other videos on LDS.org as well.

mrrad wrote:People have also said, on these forums, that any attempt to download the video anyway would be illegal… which is also an assumption and not necessarily supported by the Rights and Use Information page for LDS.org which says, in part…

I suppose you could try to justify hacking a download from LDS.org using that argument (but given the response from the Mormon Channel team, I'd say you're on shaky ground), but as soon as you go to any other site, you are governed by their rights and use policies. In particular, item 4(C) of the YouTube terms of use prohibits downloading. Here's what the Mormon Channel team had to say about that:

You asked about the Church's position on using software or plug-ins to download videos that are not downloadable; the For the Strength of Youth pamphlet states: "Obey the laws that govern sharing music, movies, and other copyrighted items."

mrrad wrote:But it's highly doubtful that the church doesn't control the copyright for church-produced videos.

As I've documented, the Church is not in sole control of the copyright for some of the videos on LDS.org. There are contractual limitations which constrain what the Church can do, and I would hope that everyone would respect that.

Copyrights are different from agreements with the Screen Actors Guild... but you should probably post what you just wrote to the other threads that DO advocate going around YouTube's efforts to stop downloading. Also, we could probably make a distinction between "personal, non-commercial use" and sharing a video in Sunday School, where the experience of watching a streamed video seems identical to watching a cached video (unless you have poor bandwidth). Yes, the presenter knows the difference but the audience does not.

I just hope that the church is learning a lesson from this and, from 2013 onward, their agreements with SAG will include downloading for use in Sunday lessons. You could say "the church doesn't control the copyright" but aparently the real reason is the church doesn't want to pay the royalties. There is a differnece.

mrrad wrote:I just hope that the church is learning a lesson from this and, from 2013 onward, their agreements with SAG will include downloading for use in Sunday lessons. You could say "the church doesn't control the copyright" but aparently the real reason is the church doesn't want to pay the royalties. There is a differnece.

It is more than royalties, which you are always free to pay when you distribute/broadcast the material. But sometimes you do not have permission to distribute/broadcast in the first place.

Of course the old saying that you can get anything with enough money is usually true, and I am sure that does factor into the decisions.

This has been an issue since the Church broadcast the movie Legacy between general conference sessions, and probably long before that.

I am always amused when we sing certain hymns at Church that I cannot call up in Gospel Library due to copyright restrictions, while others are able to display them in their music apps. I am fairly certain that proper permissions are not in place there, either.

And finally, because there is not a download button does not mean you are not allowed to download a video. Sometimes they just forget to put the button there to make it easier.

lajackson wrote:Of course the old saying that you can get anything with enough money is usually true, and I am sure that does factor into the decisions.

I suspect that at the time it was filmed, the producers had no idea that the new youth curriculum was going to work out the way it did. They might well have expected it to be distributed via DVD - not download.

Had they known, I'm sure they have gotten those rights for little to no cost. But to go back after the fact shifts the bargaining power of the negotiations significantly.

lajackson wrote:I am always amused when we sing certain hymns at Church that I cannot call up in Gospel Library due to copyright restrictions...

...and I'm especially amused that one of those hymns says "Because I have been given much I too must give." Perhaps the author thinks so but the publishing company does not.

Had they known, I'm sure they have gotten those rights for little to no cost. But to go back after the fact shifts the bargaining power of the negotiations significantly.

Maybe not. I would think the royalty rates which would include download options are pretty standard now and you could start with that as a bargaining point. Still, you can get into an awful mess when you're short-sighted. Take, for example, the program Granite Flats on BYUtv. Each episode has already been shown a few times. Even though BYU made the show, can they even air the program again without paying more royalties?

There is a lot published by the church that they don't have all the rights to. Church music is definitely one of those areas. There are hymns in the hymnbook that say they can't be copied for any reason without permission. For the church music site and the LDS Music app, they are working hard to get permission from each of the authors, composers, arrangers, publishers, and translators for each song to try to get permission to put hymns in other languages online and in the app. Right now the permission is limited to English, Spanish, French, and Portuguese. It's a lot of work – and that doesn't even get into the rights for recordings of the songs – artists, producers, etc.

Each YouTube video has video clips, photos, background music, and actors who have different license/use agreements. Check out Create.LDS.org to learn how you can donate your own talents and simplify all the different needs' licenses for the church

The movie "Family Search Indexing: How it Works" is available in the LDS Gospel Library app for smartphones. I saw it there and it is downloadable to the device so it can be used without internet connection.