Spending more than necessary

I can understand the need for 1st class quality equipment when it comes to church-wide A/V equipment, but I'm outraged when one pays more than TEN times more than what is necessary.

I can purchase a box to convert an unbalanced line level audio signal to a balanced low-level microphone signal from Amazon for 10 bucks. See the PDC21.

Or the FM Group can order the EJ2 for $142 from EM Tech Electronics for your building. (I know that's the list price, but I'll be shocked if the actual price paid is less than $50)

Why?

I don't think I can provide an adequate answer to your question.
All I can tell you is that price is one thing out of many that is looked at when meetinghouse equipment is selected. Things like features, form factor, functionality, durability of an item, can it be used in multiple situations, quantity of product availability all these things and more are considered.
Be assured that we are keenly aware that we are spending Sacred Funds, anytime money is spent on behalf of the Church, it is done prayerfully and with the guidance or the Spirit.

Be assured that we are keenly aware that we are spending Sacred Funds, anytime money is spent on behalf of the Church, it is done prayerfully and with the guidance or the Spirit.

Yes, I have the same attitude and reverence for tithing and Stake funds and thus the reason to ask regarding this particular item.

Our stake purchased 4 of these Pyle Pro direct boxes for $41 (one for each building and an extra in the stake clerk's office). Once we added cables for $2.99/ea, this device was the perfect solution for getting line-level audio into the building sound system.

Aside from missing an audio cable and bag, the difference in features, form factor, functionality, durability, that is used in multiple situations, and the quantity of product availability all seem (IMO) equal when comparing to EM Tech's product.

..but the savings was approximately 90% by purchasing from a non-church vendor.

I don't know wich is american's, or church's officers, spending attitude.
Here in Italy many poeple believe that this equation, almost always true, can be reverse: more quality = most cost.
In reality rarely most cost = most quality.
The price of goods depends from many factors, and quality, I sadly said, is not the most important. Almost all digital equipment (at least here in Italy) are made in China (R.O.C. to be precise). Same component e almost always same mother board. It will be not surprising if factory it self is the same!

...and isn't amazing how the quality of all products has improved over those of years ago.

When I was I a kid, anything that came from Japan was junk, now it is respected and even sought after. In the 60's, it was normal to see cars and trucks junked after 100 k miles, but now it's not uncommon for vehicles to get a quarter of a million miles on them...and still hold together.

The same thing applies to electronics, which depreciate in monetary value so quickly. Does everything have to be new, or purchased for 10 times the price as a competitive brand?

When I spend Stake funds I try to get the best value for the dollar. For instance, purchases do not HAVE to be new. If I can get something that meets ALL of the qualifications for the application, and can find one used for a third of the price, well...that's why some stake have 3 perfectly good used Sony EVI-D70's cameras. If they had purchased through the church, they would have only been able to afford one. And at the rate technology is improving, the used Sony EVI-D70's will have been retired and replaced long before they go bad (especially since they are only used a few times each year).

What if the church had a Deseret Industries type resource available to find and test used equipment, which we could purchase from? Even if half of all purchases were bad (not likely), it would still be cheaper than purchasing new. In reality purchases from sources such as those on eBay have very high satisfaction reputations, and if a product is not as described, there is even a good chance for a satisfactory resolution.

...just a thought

I suppose a potential advantage of buying through the church is standardized equipment, which could mean that replacement units and parts are readily available worldwide, there is standardized FM group training, and maybe even online member training, etc. I don't know if that's a consideration for the church or not. I would think if that were the case that the church might maintain a refurbishment center for fixing broken technology and redeploying it to the units if it isn't outdated. Sometimes that's a more cost-effective route. I don't know all the circumstances in the church.

When I worked for a global company, we pretty much maintained the same IT infrastructure worldwide. It made it easier for the awake tech to deal with the problem wherever it was in the world. We might keep some common standardized parts we might keep on hand, etc. But that was for things like US $20K servers where it's cost effective to replace parts. For things like cameras, PCs, etc., that might not make sense, as the cost is low.

Just before stake conference began yesterday morning, I had a brother lean over to me and ask me when I thought the Church would install LCD TVs in every classroom, so they wouldn't have to roll them around the meetinghouse on carts. I told him probably never, since TVs are still too expensive, and the risk of theft too high.
He replied that the cost of buying and mounting TVs in every classroom would be small in comparison to the cost of a new meetinghouse. (His meetinghouse is about three years old.)

drepouille wrote:He replied that the cost of buying and mounting TVs in every classroom would be small in comparison to the cost of a new meetinghouse. (His meetinghouse is about three years old.)

...to which I reply, "So what?" The church still doesn't have an endless supply of funds. This speaks to a greater attitude in our society that says those who have lots of wealth must spend it the way others see fit, so I don't fault that brother for simply being a part of society. He may observe now that the church paid a huge price to build the local chapel but, then again, that building was made to last. Unless he moves or the church experiences a lot of growth in his neighborhood then he might not be in a ward with a new chapel again in his lifetime.

And, despite how much was paid to build the chapel that one time, isn't it interesting that the annual ward budget is still just a few thousand dollars?

drepouille wrote:He replied that the cost of buying and mounting TVs in every classroom would be small in comparison to the cost of a new meetinghouse. (His meetinghouse is about three years old.)

With this attitude Italian Government rised over 2 Thousands Bilions Euros of debit!

It appears as if Amazon is closing out this product in that it is below distributor price so you got a good deal on the purchase.

Some of the differences between Emtech EJ-2Plus and the Pyle include:
1. The Pyle unit has only three fixed attenuation points for input (0dB, -20dB & -40dB). The EJ-2Plus handles a range of attenuation from -20dB to -100dB.
2. The Pyle unit has an XLR output connector, but the user has to supply his own mic cord when using it.
3. The EJ-2 Plus has the mic cord built-in to the product. The Pyle unit only takes a 1/4" jack for the input, and they do not provide any cables for the unit.
4. The EJ-2Plus is supplied with both RCA to RCA, and RCA to 3.5mm cables, and a nylon pouch for storage. The RCA and 3.5mm connections are much more common connections when using this type of product with a DVD player or a laptop computer.

However, we will continue to monitor the availability of other products to see which makes the most sense in our meetinghouse.

Like what was stated by jbtork...

Things like features, form factor, functionality, durability of an item, can it be used in multiple situations, quantity of product availability all these things and more are considered.

I can't argue that the EJ-2Plus isn't a more convenient, really slick package. My objection is not with the features, but with the price.

Please consider the following and decide for yourself if this device, for a fraction of the price as the church's solution, can satisfy jbrok's statement.

Amazon is closing out this product in that it is below distributor price

I am a distributor of this product and have purchased/sold them for years now, it is current (not being phased out), and the price is correct. Amazon may discontinue it but Pyle, the manufacturer, has not. There are many sources you can purchase this item from for less than $15 (like eBay).

only three fixed attenuation points

The attenuation setting have been perfectly adequate for every application I have used this device for. In addition, almost every device we have connected, already had a headphone volume option which the user was more familiar with (laptops, PC's, iPods, cellular telephones, boom boxes, etc.)

they do not provide any cables for the unit

if locating a microphone cable in a church building is a problem, sacred funds could be used purchase more. In any case...we're still way below the purchase price of the EJ-2Plus

EJ-2Plus is supplied with both RCA to RCA, and RCA to 3.5mm cables, and a nylon pouch for storage

Adapters and bags can also be purchased at a fraction of the price! IMO, it makes more sense to purchase a nifty plastic box filled with adapters, cords, cables, batteries, etc. and still have sacred funds left over.

I came across this thread looking for information on a crab box for my own audio bag and found some of the comments interesting. The term sacred funds came up in numerous responses. While I am grateful for the perspective of each contributor, I take pause on the tone of knowing how funds should be prioritized and spent. Might I suggest deferring to your leader and allowing them to make the decision on features versus costs and then move on. Having been responsible for counting, dispersing, determining budgets and auditing fund receipts and disbursements over the past quarter of a century, I have had more than my share of discussions about "sacred church funds". Budget funds within a unit are up to the discretion of the Bishop/Stake President and are usually allocated after consideration of input from the ward council/stake council. Within those allocations, there is discretion and then there is accountability through the audit process. In my years of auditing and overseeing audits I have never witnessed behavior that would indicate that leaders were reckless with "sacred funds". If you feel there is a problem, you should bring it up with your leader and gain their perspective. It might broaden your view.