Priesthood Ordination process

I am a new stake clerk. I have been told that there has been a recent change in the process for recording Melchizedek Priesthood ordinations, and that the stake now prints the ordination certificate.
I have looked in both Church Handbooks, but I cannot find the step by step process for these ordinations. Can someone direct me to the right source or at least tell me what the process is?
Thanks.

I'm not sure what you mean by "step by step".

In the stake MLS, you can enter the information by clicking on "More" in Reports/Forms, then "Melchizedek Ordination Record".

For the certificate, you go to the same place but click on "Certificates".

watroussb wrote:I am a new stake clerk. I have been told that there has been a recent change in the process for recording Melchizedek Priesthood ordinations, and that the stake now prints the ordination certificate.
I have looked in both Church Handbooks, but I cannot find the step by step process for these ordinations. Can someone direct me to the right source or at least tell me what the process is?
Thanks.

You can find a step-by-step process at Record Melchizedek Priesthood Ordinations on the Record Keeping and Technology Support site.

As for who prints the ordination certificate, it is true that the stake can record the MP ordination, and that the stake can print the certificate, but either of those tasks can be performed at the ward level, too. Each stake has flexibility in how it implements the MP approval and ordination process.

When I was ward clerk, I tried to get my stake clerk use the new features with no success. I resorted to the old way is has been done for years:
1. Ward Clerk provides ordination recommend form to the Bishop
2. Stake representative witnesses the ordination
3. Stake provides the ordination recommend back to the Ward Clerk
4. Ward Clerk updates the Membership record and prints the certificate
5. Ward Clerk sends the certificate to the Stake for signature
6. Ward Clerk receives the certificate from the stake and provides it to the member

Steps 3-5 can be handled more effectively if the Stake updates the record and prints the certificate. The breakdown I witnessed most often was the information never came back from the stake to show the ordination was accomplished. Only when the stake questioned why the ordination was not recorded was I successful at getting information back from them that it had, in fact, been accomplished.

If you know who is doing the ordination and the date it is to take place you can print out the certificate before hand and have it ready to be signed at the ordination. Then record the ordination in MLS once it has been accomplished. The ordination does not have to me accomplished in order to print a certificate.

The difference that is being mentioned is that the stake can record a mp advancement. I think its funny you were looking for an actual process....

JohnShaw wrote:I think its funny you were looking for an actual process....

I am glad they are defining an actual process.

I have always found it intriguing that stakes that think through and establish an actual process usually get their Melchizedek Priesthood ordinances recorded on the membership records, and rarely have to scramble to update records later when temple ordinances and missions come along.

Gary_Miller wrote:If you know who is doing the ordination and the date it is to take place you can print out the certificate before hand and have it ready to be signed at the ordination. Then record the ordination in MLS once it has been accomplished. The ordination does not have to me accomplished in order to print a certificate.

True, and that happened (rarely). Usually I only knew that there is going to be an ordination - I almost never knew who and the when almost always happened when the stake representative was available which we could not predict. For AP, it is commonly the father, but for MP not so obvious.

lajackson wrote:

JohnShaw wrote:I think its funny you were looking for an actual process....

I am glad they are defining an actual process.

I have always found it intriguing that stakes that think through and establish an actual process usually get their Melchizedek Priesthood ordinances recorded on the membership records, and rarely have to scramble to update records later when temple ordinances and missions come along.

100% agree. I do quality and process improvement for a living. If you don't plan the process, a process plans you. Too often we forget the links and potential failures that can occur, especially when there are multiple data hand-offs where a simple miss breaks the chain. Simplification of the steps will always yield fewer errors. With all the handoff's that used to be required to get MP ordinations properly recorded, it's a testamant to all involved that we do as well as we do.

As you can tell, there are a variety of ways in which this can be accomplished. I've found it most efficient to process Priesthood ordinations, prepare the certificates, obtain the Stake President's and High Councilor's signatures, then provide the certificate and original form to the assigned High Councilor. From there, the High Councilor takes them to the Ward Clerk. The Ward clerk files the form and provides the certificate to the member (or Mother/ wife so it doesn't get wrinkled). I also maintain a copy of the form just in case it has to be re-printed.

I've got an actual step-by-step chart that shows the process from beginning to end.

Regards,

Brother Van Der Heyden
Stake Clerk
Washington Utah East Stake

davesudweeks wrote:

lajackson wrote:

JohnShaw wrote:I think its funny you were looking for an actual process....

I am glad they are defining an actual process.

I have always found it intriguing that stakes that think through and establish an actual process usually get their Melchizedek Priesthood ordinances recorded on the membership records, and rarely have to scramble to update records later when temple ordinances and missions come along.

100% agree. I do quality and process improvement for a living. If you don't plan the process, a process plans you. Too often we forget the links and potential failures that can occur, especially when there are multiple data hand-offs where a simple miss breaks the chain. Simplification of the steps will always yield fewer errors. With all the handoff's that used to be required to get MP ordinations properly recorded, it's a testamant to all involved that we do as well as we do.

Man, I am so misunderstood... I just think it's funny that EVERY Stake/ward/branch has to define this process, then when a change in admin staff happens, another process is defined, and another and another, every ward, every stake......

I advocate implementing the workflow system built into the leader tools so this can happen exactly the same way in every stake. I am not advocating a random nothingness hoping that nobody creates a process.... In my mind this is needless wasted time and effort by already REALLY busy people, that could be helped by a centralized tool...

JohnShaw wrote:Man, I am so misunderstood... I just think it's funny that EVERY Stake/ward/branch has to define this process, then when a change in admin staff happens, another process is defined, and another and another, every ward, every stake......

I advocate implementing the workflow system built into the leader tools so this can happen exactly the same way in every stake.

But which way? Our stake has three processes, depending on who is present, where the ordination takes place, when it takes place (in relation to the meeting at which the ordination is sustained), and how soon the membership record needs to be updated and the certificate completed.

Perhaps we should define one workflow process as primary with two exceptions when needed. Oh, wait. We do. Except that the three process are used roughly 50%, 25%, and 25% of the time, depending on the need and circumstances.

JohnShaw wrote:I just think it's funny that EVERY Stake/ward/branch has to define this process, then when a change in admin staff happens, another process is defined, and another and another, every ward, every stake......

The church doesn't define every single procedure. It's up to the unit leader. That way it can take into account the situation with the unit (geographical separation) and individual talents, locations and situations. If the church was to define a single way of doing it, we'd probably end up hearing a bunch of complaints about how that doesn't work well in their unit.

We had a couple of new high councilors called in our stake and our stake president wanted to go over the ordination process. He wanted me to create a workflow so he could have everyone be able to reference the steps. This may not be how your stake does it, but it may be helpful in putting together your own plan.

ptharp wrote:We had a couple of new high councilors called in our stake and our stake president wanted to go over the ordination process. He wanted me to create a workflow so he could have everyone be able to reference the steps. This may not be how your stake does it, but it may be helpful in putting together your own plan.

Thanks for sharing that flowchart. A couple of comments:

• It might be worth noting that stake conference is not the only option for sustaining MP ordinations; it can also be done at stake general priesthood meeting.
• The ordination must be sustained before it can take place; in the "special circumstances" you mention, it still must be sustained in the ward's sacrament meeting (and later ratified at a stake conference or general priesthood meeting).
• I'm not sure why you have a step for giving a copy of the form to the ward clerk. We certainly don't do that in our stake, and I don't see why it would be necessary or even helpful. The ordinance has been recorded at the stake level, and that update will appear in the ward MLS (along with a notification of that update).
• There are a couple of typos and one arrow pointing the wrong direction.

[

aebrown

I'm not sure why you have a step for giving a copy of the form to the ward clerk. We certainly don't do that in our stake, and I don't see why it would be necessary or even helpful. The ordinance has been recorded at the stake level, and that update will appear in the ward MLS (along with a notification of that update

I am probably wrong (bad memory), but isn't it only fairly recently that both Ward & Stake have been able to record MP ordinations? I believe it was only the Ward that were able to do it in the past, which is why they would have been given the form.

Biggles wrote:I am probably wrong (bad memory), but isn't it only fairly recently that both Ward & Stake have been able to record MP ordinations? I believe it was only the Ward that were able to do it in the past, which is why they would have been given the form.

True, but that's no reason to continue to follow an inefficient process when we now have a better alternative.

But isn't it also true, that by giving the Ward Clerk the form, it acts a double check that the Ordinance has actually been recorded?

Biggles wrote:But isn't it also true, that by giving the Ward Clerk the form, it acts a double check that the Ordinance has actually been recorded?

Only if the Ward Clerk raises an issue if he hasn't seen it after a certain amount of time, or if that form is a trigger for something else. But the flow doesn't show that the WC does anything with the form.

So, as documented - no, I can't see how it does.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, however I do find it's better to have too much information, then none at all!

We are all human and subject to forget items, certainly if times are busy. For me word of mouth isn't necessarily the best way to make sure something is done. If it is in some documented form, that is far better than relying on memory, especially after a period of time.

I am preparing to train clerks in my stake conference this weekend, and I plan to cover forms and procedures used to track and record various ordinances. In each case, fairly specific procedures are printed on each form, and I plan to use those procedures in my training.

The MP ordination form says to give the completed form to the ward clerk, but to also give a copy of the completed form to the stake clerk. Both copies are to be maintained until the next membership audit.

Not to start another thread here, but my job would be much easier if the stake clerk could update more ordinances, as well as callings. For example, I think the stake clerk should be able to record any "ward" calling that is controlled by the stake (interviewed by stake, sustained by stake, and set apart by stake). It would also be easier for all clerks at all levels if they could record ordinances and ordinations via a web interface. I know that feature is coming, but I spend a lot of time begging ward clerks to please take time to record such in their ward MLS.

drepouille wrote:The MP ordination form says to give the completed form to the ward clerk, but to also give a copy of the completed form to the stake clerk. Both copies are to be maintained until the next membership audit.

That's a good point, and may explain why the flowchart we are discussing includes that step. But once MLS started allowing the stake to record MP ordinations, I considered that instruction on the form to be obsolete, and thus we ignore it.

Biggles wrote:But isn't it also true, that by giving the Ward Clerk the form, it acts a double check that the Ordinance has actually been recorded?

If I as stake clerk am responsible for recording the ordinance, I would not give a ward clerk the responsibility to double check whether I performed my responsibility. Our stake's process has an explicit check to make sure that the ordinance appears on the member's record. That is sufficient and much simpler than the extra steps of moving the form around and hoping the ward clerk will follow up on my work.

As the stake clerk, I must also keep track of all ordinations that need to be ratified. For that reason I keep copies of all MP ordination records in my files. Then it is a simple matter to compile the ratification list.

aebrown wrote:Thanks for sharing that flowchart. A couple of comments:

• It might be worth noting that stake conference is not the only option for sustaining MP ordinations; it can also be done at stake general priesthood meeting.
• The ordination must be sustained before it can take place; in the "special circumstances" you mention, it still must be sustained in the ward's sacrament meeting (and later ratified at a stake conference or general priesthood meeting).
• I'm not sure why you have a step for giving a copy of the form to the ward clerk. We certainly don't do that in our stake, and I don't see why it would be necessary or even helpful. The ordinance has been recorded at the stake level, and that update will appear in the ward MLS (along with a notification of that update).
• There are a couple of typos and one arrow pointing the wrong direction.

The reason I gave a copy of the ordination to the ward was because at the time this chart was made, when I entered the priesthood ordination, it was showing up on the stake computer, but it was not showing on the ward computers, so I had printed a copy of it showing that it had been done. (Not the case anymore).

I updated the flowchart and am re-posting it, cause i couldn't update the old attachment from my old post.

In item #3, change Counselor to Councilor.

There is also the case where there is no bishop's interview, such as when an elder is called to be either a bishop, a bishop's counselor, or as a member of the HP group leadership. In this case, there is only the stake interview.