MLS: Not all children of record show up in Household record

Recently working on records of a family of new converts. Dad, Mom and oldest son baptized but there are two younger children that will not show up in the household record. They have membership records and will show up as children of each parent (in individual record mode) but when I try to open up their records everything is greyed out and cannot be edited.

I thought it might be an anomaly because the records were created by the mission and not our unit. Then I found another set of records with the same problem of a longtime member.

Contacted Salt Lake and they said to "refresh unit membership data". Did that, No change. I'm fairly new as membership clerk - is this a common issue in MLS?

joshuajljohn wrote:They have membership records and will show up as children of each parent (in individual record mode) but when I try to open up their records everything is greyed out and cannot be edited.

Are you able to see the the children's name when you go to select a record for the "individual record"? Or are you only seeing them on the parent's record?

The children don't show up in our unit membership. But you can see them as children of each parent in each parent's individual record. They are not visible in any other format. Unfortunately when I click on their names (under each parent's record) their info comes up but everything is gray and not interactive.

Any thoughts?

That simply means that you don't have those membership records in your ward. The fact that the children show up on the Children section of the individual record only means that they are children of that person. For example, I would show up as a child on each of my parents' individual records, but I haven't lived in their household for many years. Being listed as a child is quite a different thing from being a member of that household; that can only be the case if you have the records for those children in the ward.

So if the children actually reside in the home with the parents, then you simply need to request their records. You can get their membership record numbers and birth dates from the screen you're looking at, so the request should be easy and the records should arrive quickly. That's assuming that records were created for each of the children; if the records don't exist for children under 8, you can create a new child of record membership record for them.

You need to create a "child of record" membership record. When new converts are baptized only those in the family who are baptized have a record created.

The children I don't see in the houselhold record are 2 and 4 years old. I can see that they have membership records, just not that I can access. I guess I never thought of just requesting their records. I will try that - I just can't see how they are not associated with the household records when they were all created together about 6 months ago.

I went through this last year with a convert family. While there is a record number on the parents record it is not a membership number. You will have to create a "child of record" in order to get a real record with a membership number that can be tied to the household. The reason for this is because the children where never given a "Name and a Blessing" so no record was created.

so I should create a new record for each child?

I guess it makes sense. Does this happen with every member (convert or long time) in the event that they have a child that is not blessed? I ask because I have the same issue with another member in my ward (just stumbled across it) whose husband is not a member and has 1 year old and a 3 year old who show up in the family but not in the household.

Yes, but first you need to make sure its OK with the parents. With new converts its usually not a problem. You just need to explain to them that in order for the children to appear on the Primary rolls there needs to be a record made.

joshuajljohn wrote:I guess it makes sense. Does this happen with every member (convert or long time) in the event that they have a child that is not blessed?

Yes.

Gary_Miller wrote:The reason for this is because the children where never given a "Name and a Blessing" so no record was created.

The second way for a record to be create besides a child naming and blessing is for the parents to request a record be created.

Gary_Miller wrote:You just need to explain to them that in order for the children to appear on the Primary rolls there needs to be a record made.

A temporary nonmember record can also be created and then the child added to a class to have the child's name appear on the rolls.

Gary_Miller wrote:

joshuajljohn wrote:I guess it makes sense. Does this happen with every member (convert or long time) in the event that they have a child that is not blessed?

Yes.

If the parents do not request a record be created then the answer is yes.

Just as a matter of follow up on this question. I spoke with someone at church HQ about this and they said that what I have described is normal. That until an ordinance is performed on any child, their records are "grayed" out and you will not be able to work with them in the normal sense.

The individual I spoke to said that if the parents want the record created they should have an ordinance performed, a blessing in other words, even if the child is older. Otherwise they should wait until the child is baptized.

Thank you for all of your input.

joshuajljohn wrote:The individual I spoke to said that if the parents want the record created they should have an ordinance performed, a blessing in other words, even if the child is older. Otherwise they should wait until the child is baptized.

This is not correct. If the child is under 8 years old you can create a record for the child without performing a blessing. Just have the parents fill out and sign the Child Blessing Record (but without entering blessing specific information). Then use the Membership > Records > New Child of Record menu option to create the record. See page 20 of the MLS manual (under Create Records > Policies and Principles, item 4) where is says a record can be created without a blessing when the child is under 8.

joshuajljohn wrote:The individual I spoke to said that if the parents want the record created they should have an ordinance performed, a blessing in other words, even if the child is older. Otherwise they should wait until the child is baptized.

I do not believe that is correct. If you call back and talk to someone else, I think you'll get a different answer.

If we followed that advice, we'd have a bunch of names that would never appear on the Primary roles until they were baptized.

This post is a response to a PM I received from joshuajljohn. I am responding to that PM here so that others can benefit from the discussion.

joshuajljohn wrote:Every child of a member should be recorded, correct?

The children should be entered into the parents' individual membership record with the member parent's permission. This does not create a record for the child. It does, however, create a temporary linking record number. But that linking record number is not a membership record number. A membership record number is not created for a child under eight until a membership record is created.

Essentially it is up to the parents as to whether a membership record should be created. Some parents may not be aware that their children do not have a record and therefore do not ask to have one created.

joshuajljohn wrote:If no ordinance (like a blessing) has occurred, then should I add a child to the parent's membership record?

Follow the guidance in Handbook 1. Essentially no record action for children should be accomplished without the parents'/guardians' permission.

joshuajljohn wrote:Is this what is meant by a child of record?

A child of record is a child (born to members of the Church) who has yet to be baptized.

joshuajljohn wrote:Should this child show up in my ward roster despite not being a 'member'? and on the rolls of the primary? If not, why?

A child will automatically appear on rosters when a membership record is created. A child without a record can be added to rosters by creating a temporary record. This works for both children of record or nonmember children. In either case the parents/guardians must give permission. For the child of record I would suggest to the parents to have a membership record created.

joshuajljohn wrote:I currently cannot access the records of these children and they do not show up anywhere useful(ward list, primary rosters, household records), but their names are attached to their parents individual records and I can see some sort of a tracking number, I just can't access it.

These children have not had a membership record or temporary record created. The number you see in the parents' records is a linking number. Until a membership record is created or a temporary record is created the child cannot be added to any roles.

They probably have your problem covered creating a records for the kids.

But you can also have an MLS database glitch. If you can search the children individually meaning they have a record in your system but can't access them through the household record the work around for the glitch is to split the mother out of the household copying the contact information so you temporarily have 2 households with identical information. Do a send and receive. Then add the children to the mothers household and another send and receive. Finally move the father into the mothers household. Don't know what the glitch is but this is the work around for it.

Interesting information from all of you. I appreciate the responses.

I still have yet to hear back via 'messages' in MLS from CHQ (other than the original response about refreshing ward data). So I will be interested to see if that response is different.

The linking number is good to know. I assumed that there was some sort of a tracking number that was not a membership number, but didn't know for sure.

The information I received from all of you is very helpful. As part of my search to find the answer to this question I have identified several families (many less active) that have children that were never recorded in any way. This will allow me to at least identify them and add them to their parents record and hopefully lead to something positive. if nothing else it has taught me the importance of digging into the records deeper than I previously thought was necessary.

We have a family that joined the Church 3 years ago. At the time, a child (but not a child of record) entry was made. Their daughter is now 8 and was baptized. How do I change the child record into a member record and record the baptism?

jchastain wrote:We have a family that joined the Church 3 years ago. At the time, a child (but not a child of record) entry was made. Their daughter is now 8 and was baptized. How do I change the child record into a member record and record the baptism?

You don't. Just record the baptism and create a new record. If the name and birth date match, the new record should replace the old linking record. If you end up with duplicate entries in the children list then just delete the old non-member entry.

I have a similar situation, with a child that was not shown as a member, but only as a non-member child, meaning it has no record itself and is not a hyperlink that can be clicked to delete the non-member entry, and there is no option to edit this section for the parent record. Now there are two entries shown for the child, one which is as a member and is a hyperlink so it can be clicked and edited, and the old non-member entry that cannot be clicked or edited. So, I cannot delete the old non-member entry. One complicating factor is that in creating the new member record, the parents provided a corrected name, so that while the date of birth is identical to the old, non-member entry for the child, the name is not an exact match because of the correction. How can I delete the old, non-member entry?

Odd. Usually there is a Remove link on the right side of the line. At this point I might just wait a few weeks for LCR 4.0 to be released and see if it will allow the old entry to be removed.

Or you can contact LUS and ask them to make the change.