audio recording in sacrament meeting?

Handbook 2, 21.2.10 says:

21.2.10 Photographs, Video Recordings, and Broadcasts in Chapels
Taking photographs or making video recordings in chapels is not permitted. Meetings and other events that are held in the chapel may not be broadcast over the Internet or by any other means (see 18.3.1 for an exception [Stake Conference]).

A member of our ward asked if they're allowed to record the audio of a sacrament meeting. Not by setting up elaborate equipment but just via an iphone or similar device resting on their lap. It could be done discretely and no one would notice it. Even if it wasn't allowed, I'm not sure how we could prevent it other than asking people not to do it.

HB2 section 21.2.10 specifically talks about pictures and video and streaming but not necessarily about audio. Is this more about the "spirit" of the law rather than the "letter" of the law? That is, even though audio recording is not specifically forbidden, is it implied?

I looked through HB1 as well and couldn't find anything definitive.

The purpose of recording a sacrament meeting talk (not from a general authority - just from members of the ward) was for further edification and review later. I suppose that could be accomplished by taking notes but I know that if I'm concentrating on taking notes, I sometimes miss things from the talk itself and it makes it harder to feel the spirit. If I've take away the "burden" of taking notes, then I can really enjoy the talk but then listen to it later if I really wanted to get a quote.

That's been a subject of puzzlement for me. I know when I raised the question a long time ago, I was told it was prohibited. But then sound systems have been installed with a "record out" jack by the pulpit.

As you say, it would be hard to enforce.

Unless someone can come up with a better answer, it seems to fall within the local leadership's discretion. That said, I'm not sure as I'd be fond of having my talks recorded.

Around here, a funeral director will typically offer to make an audio recording of a funeral in a chapel. They will bring their own recording gear including a small microphone that they will attach to the podium microphone. If I go to a relative's funeral, I'll offer to make my own audio recording and I use the P.A. system's audio output. I can hide my recorder near the jack and do the whole thing without any disruption. I'm very thankful that nearly every chapel I visit has an audio output jack waiting for me. (Recently, a funeral director's recorder stopped early and the family really appreciated my "back up recording.")

I recently offered to record a sacrament meeting for our Bishop. He was disappointed that he would be out of town the same week that a young man would be speaking before leaving on his mission (the meeting formerly known as a “missionary farewell”). The Bishop and the speakers were aware of the recording although, again, I could be discreet enough that nobody else noticed.

I would agree that it's up to the local leadership and that all parties who are to be recorded should know about it in advance. (Different states and countries have different laws about recording phone conversations when someone doesn't know they're being recorded. The same laws may apply to other recordings). Anybody could make recordings using the same methods I used and, if they're discreet, nobody else would know. And, yes, almost every cell phone could be used without the owner having to leave their seat. But the bottom line appears to be that audio recordings are not strictly prohibited. There's probably no need to make a pre-emptive, local policy about it unless you perceive that there's going to be a problem. Since you already have a specific inquiry then I'd pass it on to the Bishop (unless you are the Bishop... so maybe discuss it in ward council meeting).

for those doing this, you might check under the sacrament table, or near the pulpit. If you're meetinghouse is old enough to have a clerk table in the chapel you can check there as well... usually an audio-out in those places.

I am unable to attend meetings due to chronic illnesses. After over 5 years of being unable to attend regularly, our new bishop told me about, and gave me, a small radio receiver last week but I was only able to listen to one sacrament meeting from a different ward that is closer to my house than my own meetinghouse. The 9v battery ran out after about an hour. I have heard that some wards have meetings transmitted via phone. How can I find out more about this so that I can at least listen to talks given in my ward and so that I don't feel so isolated?

tllupton - I think that might be a question for your "Stake Assistant Clerk--Technology Specialist". If you have an LDS account (I presume you do since you're logged in to the tech website) (and forgive me if this instruction is too basic and you already know how to do it), but login to your ward directory and from the dropdown in the upper left (where it says your ward/branch name), select "Stake Information".

When that comes up, select "Stake Leaders and Organizations". The "Stake Presidency" should be selected by default (otherwise click on it). Near the bottom of the list on the right is where my "Stake Assistant Clerk--Technology Specialist" is listed. Hopefully they have a phone number or email address listed. You can explain it to him and they might have to take it to the Stake Pres.

tllupton wrote:...our new bishop told me about, and gave me, a small radio receiver last week but I was only able to listen to one sacrament meeting from a different ward that is closer to my house than my own meetinghouse.

I know a widow in our ward who uses one of those. But that system is really designed for the hard-of-hearing to use inside the chapel and not to transmit long distances. Also, I believe she can use the same battery for several weeks before it needs to be replaced. You should try a new battery, at least, if you enjoyed what this receiver was doing for you.

If you are getting the wrong meeting (must be in Utah), you can try pushing the search button(i think). If the correct one is on a different channel, it should find it. And, unless you are really close to the church building, I doubt it will work.

mrrad wrote:Also, I believe she can use the same battery for several weeks before it needs to be replaced.

I believe on some models, plugging in the earphone turns the unit on. So you need to remember to unplug it when you're done.

russellhltn wrote:I'm not sure as I'd be fond of having my talks recorded.

Funerals are one thing. But if I sense that someone is recording a sacrament meeting, my talk changes.

lajackson wrote:Funerals are one thing. But if I sense that someone is recording a sacrament meeting, my talk changes.

Why would your talk change just because its being recorded?

Gary_Miller wrote:

lajackson wrote:I sense that someone is recording a sacrament meeting, my talk changes.

Why would your talk change just because its being recorded?

There are limits to what the Spirit will allow. In the case of a known congregation, I would say certain things to edify and uplift that were meant for their benefit, that I would never say if I thought they were being recorded and might be passed on to those who were not present, who did not benefit from the context of the meeting, and who might misunderstand what was said without additional explanation.

Out ward has a lot of "shut-ins". With Stake Presidency approval, we have installed a separate "line-out" feed to a computer that digitally records the sacrament meeting. The computer has been in the Clerk's office and now it's in the library. After the recording is complete, we then edit out the sacrament service. We then burn a master CD. I built a CD duplicator (with the generous donation from a ward member- Thanks, Dad). We can burn 7 CDs in 3 minutes.

The Bishop has a list of members we regularly take the CDs to. If one of them shows up that day, he crosses them off the list. We make enough copies for those on the list. We include a program from Sacrament Meeting so that they know who was speaking. On Fast Sunday, the Bishop will take notes of who bore their testimony. We'll type that up and include it so that the listener knows who they are listening to.

We can have the CD "packet" ready by the end of Sunday School. Then the Aaronic Priesthood can take it to the member when they take the Sacrament to them.

The goal is to help the shut-in feel included. The Sabbath day was meant to worship and this system (with its expediency) allows them to do so. We have had such great success with it that we've expanded it to the other wards who meet in our building. The process has been refined so that it is really simple and not time-consuming or intrusive. I've really enjoyed it.

That's a lot of busywork but if someone's happy doing it then who am I to complain? Do the speakers know they're being recorded? If so, I would think it would be really nice of them to sometimes acknowledge the shut-ins during their talks. I suppose each speaker is different. Some would find it fun to know that their words were going to the kindly widows. Others would be nervous about having their words preserved in any way.

What kind of "feedback" are you getting from the people who actually speak in your meetings, knowing that they're being recorded? What happens to the CDs after the people have listened to them? Seems like they should be collected at some point because having them out there forever is, well, something about that seems wrong to me.

mrrad wrote:What happens to the CDs after the people have listened to them? Seems like they should be collected at some point because having them out there forever is, well, something about that seems wrong to me.

I'm personally more concerned by the potential preservation/unknown distribution aspect then the actual recording and including the shut-ins.

I can immediately imagine a dozen potential problems with having that material preserved indefinitely by who-knows-who. For example, what if, in a moment of youthful carelessness, the youth speaker says something that seemed funny at the time but will be embarrassing later when he's a father, an elders quorum president, a bishop, mission president, general authority, etc.? It's one thing if someone in the ward remembers the embarrassing moment. It's another if they have a CD of it!

I'm not sure if the wards have made it overtly clear that the speakers are being recorded. I do know that some speakers have requested recordings for their own records. Also, there is no effort to recover the CDs. As for busy work, it sounds like a lot, but it really isn't. The entire package is ready to distribute by the 3rd hour. Pretty neat process, all things considered.

The potential risks mentioned pale in comparison to the blessings that are evident week in and week out.

dotson98 wrote:The entire package is ready to distribute by the 3rd hour. Pretty neat process, all things considered.

Which means that someone is needlessly missing their Sunday School Class.

I'm inclined to keep picking this apart but, since this is locally authorized by priesthood leaders and the general feeling is that the obvious benefits of doing this outweigh the costs, then I'll let it go. After all, the origin of this discussion was to find out if anyone is successfully doing something like this and, it would seem, someone is.

As for missing Sunday School, we have Sacrament Meeting last, so at least two young men miss the end of Sunday School each week to prepare the Sacrament table.

mrrad wrote:...After all, the origin of this discussion was to find out if anyone is successfully doing something like this and, it would seem, someone is.

Actually, my original question was whether it's ok to make a recording, not if anyone is successfully doing it. The handbook says video recordings should not be done but it doesn't mention audio recordings.

So far no one has been able to pull a quote that says it's prohibited. (It is prohibited if you have a visiting GA.)

Handbook 2 - 21.1.26
Members with disabilities

"If a person cannot participate in a meeting, class, or activity, leaders and teachers may consult with the family about how to meet his or her needs. The stake president or bishop may approve organizing special classes or programs for members with disabilities (see “Organizing Special Classes, Programs, or Units” below). If a person is not able to attend Church meetings, printed materials or recordings of lessons and talks may be provided."

Out ward has a lot of "shut-ins". With Stake Presidency approval, we have installed a separate "line-out" feed to a computer that digitally records the sacrament meeting.

We do the same thing (Priests take a CD, Program of Services and provide the sacrament) for our home bound members, only we use the assisted hearing receiver as our audio source for recording.

It's much smaller and more portable.

In our case, we plug it into a laptop (for it's CD burner), and it allows me to set up in the library for unattended recording. Then following Sacrament meeting, I'll simply crop out the portion of the meeting before the talks and quickly add chapters for each speaker before burning.

The process takes about 15 minutes and I usually am done in time to attend a portion of the Gospel Doctrine class .

When I was a child (in the 80's and/or 90's), there was a person who couldn't make it to church due to disability or some such, and whoever was in charge just had someone tape-record the meeting (on an audio-cassette), and let them listen to it after church. No one else missed any meetings. (I don't think the time of day has to be in sync with the regular meeting, personally, although a scheduled time might be nice.) I think they recorded over it every week (so I don't believe it was preserved). You could still do that, actually (no need to deal with CDs, streaming and computers). Very cost-effective, and not particularly time-consuming. Although you can digitize audio-cassette's, not everyone is going to know how to do it, or have the equipment to do it (but lots of people will with CDs, and there is software and hardware to record streams). So, the risk of problematic distribution is less.

The equipment is still available in most meetinghouses. Or new church in 2012 came with an audio recorder, both CD and tape

johnshaw wrote:The equipment is still available in most meetinghouses. Or new church in 2012 came with an audio recorder, both CD and tape

And a jack to plug it into.

I understand that recording or photographing sacrament meeting is not allowed. What about a Christmas program, or musical fireside that is taking place in the chapel? I wish we had a Conference Center in So Cal,
because I know that they are allowed to take photos there...

danamfallentine wrote:I understand that recording or photographing sacrament meeting is not allowed.

Just to be clear, it's video recording that's prohibited, not audio recording. There's no language limiting that prohibition to only certain meetings.

danamfallentine wrote:I understand that recording or photographing sacrament meeting is not allowed. What about a Christmas program, or musical fireside that is taking place in the chapel?

When recording music, things get more complicated. If you want to distribute a recording of the music (for example, making a CD for ward members), you'll need to get a mechanical or synchronization license (permission from the song's copyright owners). At least that's the requirement in the United States.