How to figure YM, YW budgets

How do I figure out 2012 ym yw budgets.
thanks
jepcked

jedwards7 wrote:How do I figure out 2012 ym yw budgets.

Did you really mean 2012? If so, there's not much to figure out -- in MLS just use the Budget Report to see what has been spent for each category (that assumes that all expenses have been charged to the correct category, of course).

If you instead meant 2013 and are wondering how to decide what portion of the budget allowance should be allocated to a particular organization for the coming year, I would recommend that you review Budget allocation methods.

thinks I did mean 2013

For all organizations I figured out what percent of the total 2012 budget allowance used and then give each organization that percent or close to it.

We ask the organizations to submit budget requests based on what they think is needed to support their programs and activities. We then modify these requested amounts to fit within the estimated ward budget allocation. This works relatively well for us.

Gary_Miller wrote:For all organizations I figured out what percent of the total 2012 budget allowance used and then give each organization that percent or close to it.

Note that Handbook 1, Section 14.7.1 specifically says that organizations are supposed to estimate their needs for the upcoming year. The previous year's expenses could certainly be a factor when considering recurring expenses, but the budgeting should be based on a detailed analysis of needs for the future, not expenses of the past.

Isn't there a "trap" with using last year's budget to work out next years? What I'm talking about is if a organization had a surplus at the end of 2011 that they were allowed to carry over. AFAIK, the only way to do that is to up the 2012 budget by that amount. So, if you use the 2012 budget (or expenses) as the starting point for the 2013 budget, you may be giving them more then intended.

aebrown wrote:Note that Handbook 1, Section 14.7.1 specifically says that organizations are supposed to estimate their needs for the upcoming year. The previous year's expenses could certainly be a factor when considering recurring expenses, but the budgeting should be based on a detailed analysis of needs for the future, not expenses of the past.

You won't get any disagreement from me. If I had my way I require an activity based budget from all organizations, as I feel that makes the leaders justify their needs. However I'm not in charge so the best I can do is give them a starting point, and since activity needs seldom change from year to year a percent of the estimated allowance was the best way to start. Each organization is free to submit their estimate based on needs if they disagree with the estimated percentage.

RussellHltn wrote:Isn't there a "trap" with using last year's budget to work out next years? What I'm talking about is if a organization had a surplus at the end of 2011 that they were allowed to carry over. AFAIK, the only way to do that is to up the 2012 budget by that amount. So, if you use the 2012 budget (or expenses) as the starting point for the 2013 budget, you may be giving them more then intended.

No problems with a surplus carry over by organization. If you did not use it last year then you did not need it and it gets added to the new years overall amount and reallocated. The percentage allocated is based on a comparison of expenses for 2011 and 2012 not what was allocated. Last year we carried over a large amount of funds. This year I guarantee that the budget will be zero on December 31.

Sometimes an organization has a surplus that they are allowed to carry over because they have a plan. The surplus wasn't because they didn't need it, but because they've got something in mind for the following year.

RussellHltn wrote:Sometimes an organization has a surplus that they are allowed to carry over because they have a plan. The surplus wasn't because they didn't need it, but because they've got something in mind for the following year.

I have yet come across a good reason for an organization to plan an activity that would require them to carry over funds from one year to the next. Maybe you could provide some examples where you have seen this happen.

Gary_Miller wrote:I have yet come across a good reason for an organization to plan an activity that would require them to carry over funds from one year to the next. Maybe you could provide some examples where you have seen this happen.

Our stake arranges (and pays) for youth conference every other year and the ward is responsible for the years in between. We plan on carrying over a surplus in years that we don't pay for youth conference so that other budgets are more even from year to year. However, I manage this in a separate budget sub-category specifically for youth conference and not in the general ym or yw budget.

I can also see either the YM or YW planning a less expensive summer camp on year so that they have money for a more expensive one the next. But again, I'd manage that with a special sub-category just for that activity.

I was told we get a certain amount of money according to how many ym or yw are in each organization and their is a formula to figure this out. Is this not the case? Should I just estimate what we got the year before to give the organizations an estimate?

jedwards7 wrote:I was told we get a certain amount of money according to how many ym or yw are in each organization and their is a formula to figure this out. Is this not the case? Should I just estimate what we got the year before to give the organizations an estimate?

Yes, a portion of the budget allowance is based on the number of YM and YW who attended meetings. But the stake typically takes some portion of that, so you'd have to include that in your calculation. And that amount was never intended to be the full YM/YW budget; in my experience a significant portion of the general budget allocation is also allocated to the youth.

Although you may consider past expenses or these YM/YW budget allowance components as some factors in your budgeting, the fundamental principle is the one I mentioned earlier from Handbook 1, Section 14.7.1: organizations are supposed to estimate their needs for the upcoming year based on their planned activities and other expenses. That may or may not be very similar to the previous year's expenses.

jedwards7 wrote:I was told we get a certain amount of money according to how many ym or yw are in each organization and their is a formula to figure this out. Is this not the case? Should I just estimate what we got the year before to give the organizations an estimate?

Each quarter you receive a Quarterly Budget Allowance Statement. This statement will show you the breakdown on how the allowance is figured. As long as the statements have not been deleted you can print them from MLS.

Thanks for all the replies.

Gary_Miller wrote:I have yet come across a good reason for an organization to plan an activity that would require them to carry over funds from one year to the next. Maybe you could provide some examples where you have seen this happen.

It happens on occasion. One ward I was in held a fundraiser for youth camp in the fall and had the funds carried over to the following year's camp.

This is where I've seen it as well. The training WBT also covers carrying over excess funds that were designated for a specific camp as well.

Mikerowaved wrote:It happens on occasion. One ward I was in held a fundraiser for youth camp in the fall and had the funds carried over to the following year's camp.

Yes that does happen but fundraiser money goes in to the AMFA which is different from the LUBA. I was speaking specifically of the LUBA.

I've been struggling with these categories and would appreciate some input. Hopefully I'm not getting to far afield for this topic.

According to Handbook 2, the annual camp for youth is supposed to be paid out of the budget (first preference). If we pay for scout camp, it will take close to 25% of our total budget. Then we have to figure out how to pay for YW camp and high adventure. In addition, we have to pay for monthly scout campouts, 3 11-year old campouts, daycamps for cubs and 11-year olds, and awards for all groups. In the end, it would be nice to have some funds left over for the other organizations.

I know that there are other options for funding some of these, but I'm curious about how other units are funding all of this. If you can give a percentage of total budget, that would be nice for comparison.

Thanks

It hard to give a percent as every unit does things a little different. The biggest thing you have to remember is that everything except the Long Term Camps and Equipment or Supplies for such camps has to be expensed out of the local unit budget allowance. In my unit we have to ask for some help from the participants 2012s was $75 from YM and $40 from YW that was about 1/3 of the total cost per individual for camps. The remainder for the YM camp from LUBA and fundraising, for the YW it came out of LUBA.

Our current breakdown for 2013s budget by percent of estimated allowance is listed below. The percent is subject to change once the expense totals for 2012 are final. Percentages are base on a comparison of the last two years expenses and doctored a little to meet current projected needs. These are the major categories under each one I collect expenses in a sub-categories so we get a better picture of where expenses are going.

Activities 10%
Administration 10%
Curriculum 7%
Elders Quorum 1%
High Priests 1%
Library 3%
Miscellaneous 3%
Primary 15%
Relief Society 5%
Single Adults 0%
Sunday School 0%
Young Men 20%
Young Women 15%

You seem to be missing YSA from that list - and that is one area where the increase in LUBA was supposed to go towards?

Gary_Miller wrote:It hard to give a percent as every unit does things a little different. The biggest thing you have to remember is that everything except the Long Term Camps and Equipment or Supplies for such camps has to be expensed out of the local unit budget allowance. In my unit we have to ask for some help from the participants 2012s was $75 from YM and $40 from YW that was about 1/3 of the total cost per individual for camps. The remainder for the YM camp from LUBA and fundraising, for the YW it came out of LUBA.

Our current breakdown for 2013s budget by percent of estimated allowance is listed below. The percent is subject to change once the expense totals for 2012 are final. Percentages are base on a comparison of the last two years expenses and doctored a little to meet current projected needs. These are the major categories under each one I collect expenses in a sub-categories so we get a better picture of where expenses are going.

Activities 10%
Administration 10%
Curriculum 7%
Elders Quorum 1%
High Priests 1%
Library 3%
Miscellaneous 3%
Primary 15%
Relief Society 5%
Single Adults 0%
Sunday School 0%
Young Men 20%
Young Women 15%

Gary, for a guy who really does a great job of scouring the handbook related to budget items, I find the VAST difference between your Young Men and Young Women budgets surprising. It seems to not be in accordance with what the handbook wants to happen.

dannykos wrote:You seem to be missing YSA from that list - and that is one area where the increase in LUBA was supposed to go towards?

Some Wards/Stakes will do this differently depending on whether a stake or surrounding area has a YSA Branch/Ward/Stake.

dannykos wrote:You seem to be missing YSA from that list - and that is one area where the increase in LUBA was supposed to go towards?

We have a YSA Ward in our stake they get all the YSA budget allowance and take care of all the YSA activities. While the YSA can choose where they attend we encourage them to attend the YSA ward.

JohnShaw wrote:Gary, for a guy who really does a great job of scouring the handbook related to budget items, I find the VAST difference between your Young Men and Young Women budgets surprising. It seems to not be in accordance with what the handbook wants to happen.

Not having the exact reference if I remember correctly the Handbooks says something along the lines of activities for YM should be consistent with the level of activities for the YW, and every effort should be made to ensure budget allocations are at or near the same amount. I'll go by the church and verify later today.

While we do our best to provide equal amounts of funds it seems that no matter what happens YM always need more funds. This is due to the scouting program and the cost of a monthly camp-outs and awards, which is something the YW don't seem to do much of. There is also the cost of the annual camps the cost for YM camps cost a lot more than YW camps. We make every effort to ensure the level of activities is consistent which is hard to do since YW don't do monthly camp-outs.

I will tell you that 15% of the annual budget allowance is a great improvement. The two year (2011-2012) average expense for the YW was 9% of the LUBA where the YM was 20%. For 2013 the YW have a 3% increase in allowance where the YM have close to a 10% decrease.

Gary_Miller wrote:Our current breakdown for 2013s budget by percent of estimated allowance is listed below.

Do you use the remaining 10% as some type of emergency reserve, or perhaps to compensate if attendance were to decline during the year?

lajackson wrote:Do you use the remaining 10% as some type of emergency reserve, or perhaps to compensate if attendance were to decline during the year?

Both.

Gary_Miller wrote:Our current breakdown for 2013s budget by percent of estimated allowance is listed below.

While I'm sure a point of comparison is welcome, I don't know if that breakdown is meaningful without knowing the population breakdown of the ward. For example the number of YM, YW, YSA, SA, attendance levels, etc.

I'm not saying this to encourage disclosure, but to caution others about comparing it to their ward.

Moderator Note: Just so there is no temptation to post membership or financial data please remember the Code of Conduct which states:

You may not post any of the following:
...
Actual membership, financial, statistical, or other data from Church records. The use of fictitious data is generally allowed.
...

russellhltn wrote:While I'm sure a point of comparison is welcome, I don't know if that breakdown is meaningful without knowing the population breakdown of the ward. For example the number of YM, YW, YSA, SA, attendance levels, etc.

I'm not saying this to encourage disclosure, but to caution others about comparing it to their ward.

By no means did I intend my numbers to be what others would have there are many different variables that come into play. Expenses in a ward with a larger or smaller number or Youth would certainly be different. As would a ward with a larger or smaller attendance figures. The percent of the allowance the stake withhold would also have an impact. How youth camps are funded would have an impact as well.

Gary_Miller wrote:It hard to give a percent as every unit does things a little different. The biggest thing you have to remember is that everything except the Long Term Camps and Equipment or Supplies for such camps has to be expensed out of the local unit budget allowance. In my unit we have to ask for some help from the participants 2012s was $75 from YM and $40 from YW that was about 1/3 of the total cost per individual for camps. The remainder for the YM camp from LUBA and fundraising, for the YW it came out of LUBA.

Our current breakdown for 2013s budget by percent of estimated allowance is listed below. The percent is subject to change once the expense totals for 2012 are final. Percentages are base on a comparison of the last two years expenses and doctored a little to meet current projected needs. These are the major categories under each one I collect expenses in a sub-categories so we get a better picture of where expenses are going.

Activities 10%
Administration 10%
Curriculum 7%
Elders Quorum 1%
High Priests 1%
Library 3%
Miscellaneous 3%
Primary 15%
Relief Society 5%
Single Adults 0%
Sunday School 0%
Young Men 20%
Young Women 15%

Thanks, that is just what I was hoping for, without totally realizing how close to the line I was getting. Thanks to JDLessley for the reminder.

Another question for you and any others who care to reply - what kinds of fundraisers have you had and what seems to have higher success?

[Moderator note: I have created a new topic ( https://tech.lds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=14605 ) for the fundraising question (which I am also trying to rename).