We Need Help Testing the Scriptures

We need EVERYONE's help in testing a new version of the online scriptures. First let me give you some background.

Over the next year we will be publishing the scriptures on the Internet in about 30 different languages with more languages coming online electronically as we have them available. A key step this plan is to involve the community in helping us test the electronic scriptures before we post them on the main scriptures web site. So we need everyone's help who is willing to donate some time to do some testing.

Currently the Online Scriptures found at http://scriptures.lds.org
is available in English, Spanish, German, Italian, French, and Portuguese. In this new version we will be adding the following languages.

• Danish (Dansk)
• Hungarian (Magyar)
• Dutch (Nederlands)

This new version of the scriptures can be found at http://beta.scriptures.lds.org. For all languages EXCEPT English, the Church only has the Book of Mormon, D&C, Pearl of Great Price, and some of the Study Helps that we publish online. There are no "official Church" versions of the Old & New Testaments for these languages so you will notice that we do not have these books online at this time.

Here is what we need you to do.

1. Tell all your friends to help! Spread the word that we need help testing. Pass this email to those who have time to run through tests for us.
2. I've attached a comprehensive test plan to this post. Download and print it out and use it as a guide to your testing. Make sure to complete ALL of the tests listed in this document.
3. We need ALL languages tested, not just the new languages. The reason is that when we bring on new languages, we sometimes have to change code to support the new language and this could change how old languages behave.
4. We DO NOT need you to check the translations of the actual scriptures. If you do not speak Hungarian or Tongan, YOU CAN STILL PARTICIPATE. We are looking for broken links, broken functionality, missing translations in navigation and help, etc. If you do see something obvious wrong in the Scriptures text let us know but we have done a very exhaustive review of the "actual text" to ensure it is complete and accurate. We need your help in looking to see if, for example, we still have "English" in the navigation or help system of another language.
5. DO NOT post "atta-boys" or other miscellaneous comments to this thread. Only post questions, results or problems with what you find. This makes it easier for us to look for results and find issues. We want you to post not only problems. If you were successful in a particular language, post that you ran all of the tests for language "ABC" and found no problems.
6. Because we have currently 10 languages we need tested, please post which language you are working on. Before you select a language, review this thread and try to pick a language someone else is not working with. Of course if you are familiar with a particular language, test it. We eventually need ALL languages tested (including English).

Our QA lead on this project is Stewart Peatross and you can reach him by private messaging speatross or sending him an email through his profile page. As always you can also private message or email me as I am heavily involved with this project as well.

We are so grateful for a community that is so active and involved with the Lord's work. Thank you for your time and commitment to this process. Please share this link with anyone that can help out. The more people we involve, the quicker the testing will go and the more accurate the product will be.

Thanks for all your work and service!

Tom Welch
Technology Community Manager
Online Scriptures Program Manager
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

tomw wrote:Because we have currently 10 languages we need tested, please post which language you are working on.

I'll take German.

tomw wrote:I've attached a comprehensive test plan to this post. Download and print it out and use it as a guide to your testing. Make sure to complete ALL of the tests listed in this document.

It's not a huge problem, but step 9c of the test plan says you will see "all your marked references." But we haven't been told to mark anything yet. We don't even know yet how to mark anything -- that doesn't happen until step 31. So there should be a step to mark something before a test case assumes something is marked. Also, there should be a test case to review the page that appears when nothing is marked -- all the test cases related to the Marked page assume that something is marked, but a totally different page is displayed when nothing is marked.

Also, steps 1-4 ostensibly test the main menu links. Most of the links get further treatment later on, but there is no test case that asks us to look at the Help page. I know we're not supposed to worry about the translated text itself, but there is the potential for problems with formatting and special characters. Specifically, the German version has problems with quotation marks and bullet characters. I will report those separately, but I wanted to give a concrete example of why the Help page should be reviewed.

I found the following issues in the German version while reviewing test plan steps 1-11. A couple of the issues are for steps outside 1-11 because I happened across them in the earlier steps, even though the most appropriate test plan steps come later.



All: There is no test case for the Help page, but the following are problems (upon further review, these seem to be problems throughout the German site, not just on the Help page, but these are some specific examples):

• Quotation marks in IE appear as hollow boxes, but in Firefox appear properly.
• In the Footnotes paragraph, the parenthetical symbol for footnotes appears blank in Firefox; in IE it is a hollow box.

10.e. The sentence at the top that lists the search options is missing a space before “von der Heilige Schriften.” So, for example, when you are searching in just the text, it says “allen Formen des Worts, TAUFE in der Textvon der Heilige Schriften” – there should be a space between “Text” and “von”. Also, the word should be "Heiligen" in "von der Heiligen Schriften"

10.f. One of the options is for searching for all word forms. I know that in German, separable verbs are a particular challenge for searching. But when verbs are separated, the search for all word forms does not find them. For example, when searching for all word forms of “umkehren”, there really should be a hit on Moroni 9:3, which contains the phrase “denn sie kehren nicht um”. I know this would require a much more complex search algorithm that actually understands German grammar to some extent, so it must be out of scope for the first version, but I thought I’d mention it.

19.g. Options – In IE, the Save Options button doesn’t actually save options (when you return they are back to default settings). This works fine in Firefox.

35. Marked – If you follow the main Marked link when no scriptures are marked, a page is displayed with the title “Marked Reference Search”. The second paragraph has small square bullets in English. In the German version, in IE, the bullets appear as hollow boxes; in Firefox they don’t appear at all. Also, in the second bullet point, the English version has a note about cookies; that entire Note does not appear in German.

Thanks for you help Alan. I've made some changes to the test plan that reflect your suggestions. One of the first things you will notice about this test plan is that it is not comprehensive. If you find holes in it please let me know and we can add test cases as go. Feel free to test any functionality that is not listed in the test plan.

I'm also looking into the issues with German that you have found.

Also anytime you can include a link to the problem please do so.

Thanks for your help with this!

Alan,

I can't reproduce this issue for me there is a space between text and von. Can you provide a link? Is it specific to search results?

Alan_Brown wrote: 10.e. The sentence at the top that lists the search options is missing a space before “von der Heilige Schriften.” So, for example, when you are searching in just the text, it says “allen Formen des Worts, TAUFE in der Textvon der Heilige Schriften” – there should be a space between “Text” and “von”. Also, the word should be "Heiligen" in "von der Heiligen Schriften"

Noted and reported this issue:

Alan_Brown wrote:

• Quotation marks in IE appear as hollow boxes, but in Firefox appear properly.
• In the Footnotes paragraph, the parenthetical symbol for footnotes appears blank in Firefox; in IE it is a hollow box.

Cannot reproduce this issue, when I modify any options in the German then click "Save Options" exit then restart IE or Firefox it remembers my options. Do you have your browser setup to remove cookies on exit?

Alan_Brown wrote: 19.g. Options – In IE, the Save Options button doesn’t actually save options (when you return they are back to default settings). This works fine in Firefox.

Noted and reported Thanks!

Alan_Brown wrote: 35. Marked – If you follow the main Marked link when no scriptures are marked, a page is displayed with the title “Marked Reference Search”. The second paragraph has small square bullets in English. In the German version, in IE, the bullets appear as hollow boxes; in Firefox they don’t appear at all. Also, in the second bullet point, the English version has a note about cookies; that entire Note does not appear in German.

Alan_Brown wrote:I

• Quotation marks in IE appear as hollow boxes, but in Firefox appear properly.
• In the Footnotes paragraph, the parenthetical symbol for footnotes appears blank in Firefox; in IE it is a hollow box.

19.g. Options – In IE, the Save Options button doesn’t actually save options (when you return they are back to default settings). This works fine in Firefox.

35. Marked – If you follow the main Marked link when no scriptures are marked, a page is displayed with the title “Marked Reference Search”. The second paragraph has small square bullets in English. In the German version, in IE, the bullets appear as hollow boxes; in Firefox they don’t appear at all. Also, in the second bullet point, the English version has a note about cookies; that entire Note does not appear in German.

Which version of IE are you using?

Tom:
You should probably include browser / version in your "Reporting Defects" section of the test plan.

Thanks
The Earl

The LDS.org breadcrumb at the top left always takes you to the the english LDS.org page, regardless of the selected language.

The LDS.org language sites seem pretty sparse, but mormon.org has some more fleshed out content.

The "conditions of use" and "privacy policy" are also english only.

The Earl

speatross wrote:I can't reproduce this issue for me there is a space between text and von. Can you provide a link? Is it specific to search results?

http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/searc ... sw=checked

produces "allen Formen des Worts, TAUFE in der Textvon der Heilige Schriften, sortiert nach Relevanz" immediately under the horizontal rule and above the first reference. As near as I can tell, it happens all the time, no matter what the options are, in both IE and Firefox. The above is a copy and paste, so I am sure the space is truly missing.

speatross wrote:Cannot reproduce this issue, when I modify any options in the German then click "Save Options" exit then restart IE or Firefox it remembers my options. Do you have your browser setup to remove cookies on exit?

Hmm. I just tried this quickly at work using IE7 (which I am also using at home). I can't reproduce it. I'll have to take a look when I get home tonight. But I do not have my browser set to remove cookies. I duplicated it several times, because I thought it so odd, and I also tried it using Firefox several times and it worked every time. Curious. I am using Windows XP (Home at home, Pro at work).

I made the mistake of reporting two bugs in one paragraph (10.e.), and I fear that the second bug may have been overlooked (and I only mentioned half the problem in my initial report anyway).

http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/se...ked&sw=checked

produces "allen Formen des Worts, TAUFE in der Textvon der Heilige Schriften, sortiert nach Relevanz" immediately under the horizontal rule and above the first reference. The middle phrase should be "von den heiligen Schriften" (the article "der" should be "den" and the adjective "Heilige" should be "heiligen" for a plural dative). Finally, the word "heilige" in German is normally not capitalized (except in a title, which this is not).

speatross wrote:Cannot reproduce this issue, when I modify any options in the German then click "Save Options" exit then restart IE or Firefox it remembers my options. Do you have your browser setup to remove cookies on exit?

OK, I just read your comment more carefully. You said that after clicking "Save Options" you restarted your browser, and then it remembered your options. Indeed, that is the way it works for me. But that is not at all intuitive, and it works differently in IE than in Firefox. However, upon further research, it appears to have nothing to do with the German implementation -- English works the same way.

However, it is still the case that I can only reproduce this on my home computer -- neither my work computer nor my laptop has the problem (both running IE7). I don't know what is different about my home computer. So the remainder of this post can be taken with a grain of salt at this point.

Specifically, with IE, when you change options and then Save Options, if you then go back into the Options page without exiting the browser, the options appear to be reset back to the way they were when you entered the Options page before making the change. And yet the options were indeed changed, as is clear from the appearance of the footnote indicator. However, if you exit the browser and come back in, the Options page will finally actually reflect the changed options.

In Firefox, however, when you change options, Save Options, and come back to the Options page, you immediately see the new settings properly reflected, even if you do not exit the browser.

The way the Options page works in IE is quite confusing. The user interface should always show the current state of options; it becomes quite unpredictable if the UI shows settings that may or may not reflect the current state. That is the way the Options page works in IE. It really needs to be fixed, or if for some reason it cannot be fixed, in IE there should be a warning displayed that the settings will not appear to be saved until you exit and restart the browser.

speatross wrote:I've made some changes to the test plan that reflect your suggestions. One of the first things you will notice about this test plan is that it is not comprehensive. If you find holes in it please let me know and we can add test cases as go. Feel free to test any functionality that is not listed in the test plan.

So is the revised test plan posted somewhere, or should we just continue using the original test plan for now?

speatross wrote:One of the first things you will notice about this test plan is that it is not comprehensive. If you find holes in it please let me know and we can add test cases as go. Feel free to test any functionality that is not listed in the test plan.

Item 12c of the test plan tells you to "Click on the Help link." But this is ambiguous -- there are two Help links displayed at that point. There is one in the main menu, and another inside the Search panel. I guessed properly that it was the one in the Search panel that was intended for this test case, but someone else might choose the main Help link -- it is the first one on the page, after all. The test plan should be clarified to say which Help link is intended.

It is also a reasonable question to ask if it is a good UI to have two Help links displayed at the same time. Perhaps the one on the Search panel could be named "Search Help" so that it is clear that it is offering help on Search, and the other one on the main menu provides more general help.

Alan_Brown wrote:10.f. One of the options is for searching for all word forms. I know that in German, separable verbs are a particular challenge for searching. But when verbs are separated, the search for all word forms does not find them. For example, when searching for all word forms of “umkehren”, there really should be a hit on Moroni 9:3, which contains the phrase “denn sie kehren nicht um”. I know this would require a much more complex search algorithm that actually understands German grammar to some extent, so it must be out of scope for the first version, but I thought I’d mention it.

In addition to completely separated verbs I mentioned above, the search does not find many other forms. For example, searching for "umkehren" does not even find "umgekehrt"; searching for "laufen" does not find "lief", etc. It appears that the "all word forms" is very limited -- the word form has to begin the same way and be different only in certain ending letters. Weak nouns have a similar problem -- searching for "Herr" will not match "Herrn" (used in all but the nominative case).

However, it seems that English has the same problem -- searching for "repent" will find "repented", but searching for "forget" will not find "forgot". It's just that because of the grammar of German, this incomplete implementation of the word form search will miss far more words than the equivalent functionality in English.

Test plan #18:

In German, if you search for "gemäß" you will find a reference in 1 Ne 1:3 (and many others) as follows:

http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/searc ... ecked&bw=1

But if you search for "gemä*" you do not ever match "gemäß". Use this link to verify that:

http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/searc ... ecked&bw=1

As I have done other searches, it appears that in no case will the character "ß" at the end of a word be matched by a wildcard "*", although if you shorten the search to "gem*", then "gemäß" will be found. I wonder if any non-ASCII single character at the end of a word will fail to match a wildcard, but the only examples I can think of in German involve ß.

http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/en/options

The Options page in English is missing the Options link in the top menu links.

The Earl wrote:The LDS.org breadcrumb at the top left always takes you to the the english LDS.org page, regardless of the selected language.

This is as intended. I'll log it as a suggestion as to something we should change. Currently we don't have as many language sites as we will have languages in the scriptures.

The Earl wrote:The "conditions of use" and "privacy policy" are also english only.

Also as intended at this time. We are working on translations for all of these items but they won't be rolled out with the scriptures. Great feedback, however.


Stewart, we should add these items to the test plan so people to flag them as problems. Then when we get solutions to them, we can update the test plan.

Tom

Alan_Brown wrote:So is the revised test plan posted somewhere, or should we just continue using the original test plan for now?

Stewart will post another one with the changes.

Tom

Alan_Brown wrote:In addition to completely separated verbs I mentioned above, the search does not find many other forms. For example, searching for "umkehren" does not even find "umgekehrt"; searching for "laufen" does not find "lief", etc. It appears that the "all word forms" is very limited -- the word form has to begin the same way and be different only in certain ending letters. Weak nouns have a similar problem -- searching for "Herr" will not match "Herrn" (used in all but the nominative case).

However, it seems that English has the same problem -- searching for "repent" will find "repented", but searching for "forget" will not find "forgot". It's just that because of the grammar of German, this incomplete implementation of the word form search will miss far more words than the equivalent functionality in English.

Phonetic searching is problematic with various languages because it's hard to get translation on "sounds like". We are working on improving this. I'll let the developers see your feedback.

Tom

Step 22: Searching for common words seems to properly exclude them from the search, as can be seen in this link:

http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/searc ... ecked&bw=1

However, the resulting message is not properly structured. In the example above, it says:

UNDDas Wort ist nicht aussagekräftig und kam in der Suche nicht zum Tragen.

But it should say (since we are searching for the word "UND"):

Das Wort UND ist nicht aussagekräftig und kam in der Suche nicht zum Tragen.

tomw wrote:Phonetic searching is problematic with various languages because it's hard to get translation on "sounds like". We are working on improving this. I'll let the developers see your feedback.

I'm not talking about phonetic searching, but rather word forms. There is a distinct difference. Phonetic searching would help you find the word "repentance" even if you mistakenly search for "repentence". That's a nice feature, but not that big of a deal in my opinion.

But word form searching is much more helpful, and has nothing to do with "sounds like". Word form searching will enable you to find "repented", "repents", and "repenting" if you search for "repent." And this version of the scriptures advertizes through the "Search All Word Forms" option that it can do it. It sort of works, but misses quite a few word forms in English, and far more word forms in German. I wouldn't have mentioned it, except that the word forms option implies that it will actually search all word forms, which it falls short of at this point.

Here's an updated version of the test plan. Let me know if you find anything else that needs to be changed.

Thanks
Stewart

Alan_Brown wrote:Item 12c of the test plan tells you to "Click on the Help link." But this is ambiguous -- there are two Help links displayed at that point. There is one in the main menu, and another inside the Search panel. I guessed properly that it was the one in the Search panel that was intended for this test case, but someone else might choose the main Help link -- it is the first one on the page, after all. The test plan should be clarified to say which Help link is intended.

It is also a reasonable question to ask if it is a good UI to have two Help links displayed at the same time. Perhaps the one on the Search panel could be named "Search Help" so that it is clear that it is offering help on Search, and the other one on the main menu provides more general help.

Good suggestion to change the link name to Word Search Help. I'll pass this along to the developers.

I'm unable to reproduce this as well. I making changes and navigating to other pages without exiting the browser and IE7and Firefox are remember my options. Not sure what this could be other than local browser settings. You might want to clear your browser cache and take a look at the browser settings on your home machine and compare them to your other machines.

Alan_Brown wrote:http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/searc ... sw=checked

produces "allen Formen des Worts, TAUFE in der Textvon der Heilige Schriften, sortiert nach Relevanz" immediately under the horizontal rule and above the first reference. As near as I can tell, it happens all the time, no matter what the options are, in both IE and Firefox. The above is a copy and paste, so I am sure the space is truly missing.



Hmm. I just tried this quickly at work using IE7 (which I am also using at home). I can't reproduce it. I'll have to take a look when I get home tonight. But I do not have my browser set to remove cookies. I duplicated it several times, because I thought it so odd, and I also tried it using Firefox several times and it worked every time. Curious. I am using Windows XP (Home at home, Pro at work).

I'm unable to reproduce this as well. I making changes and navigating to other pages without exiting the browser and IE7and Firefox are remember my options. Not sure what this could be other than local browser settings. You might want to clear your browser cache and take a look at the browser settings on your home machine and compare them to your other machines.

Alan_Brown wrote:Step 22: Searching for common words seems to properly exclude them from the search, as can be seen in this link:

http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/searc ... ecked&bw=1

However, the resulting message is not properly structured. In the example above, it says:



But it should say (since we are searching for the word "UND"):

Thanks. I'll send this along to the developers.

The LuB (D&C) Chronological Order of Contents at http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/dc/chrono is mostly in German, but the Ort (Place) column appears to be in Spanish.

In the Church History Maps Index of Place-Names at http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/chmaps/index, there is a spurious paragraph break in the middle of a sentence. In English, it is all one paragraph.

In the Bible Maps Index of Place-Names at http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/biblemaps/index, the reference system is described as "Die Eintragung für Rabba (Amman) auf der ersten Karte beispielsweise ist 1: D5—d.h. Karte 1, Quadrat D5." But the entries don't actually appear like "1: D5"; rather they appear as "1. Physische Karte des Heiligen Landes: D5 ". However, in English, both the Church History Index of Place-Names and the index for Bible Maps describe the reference system as simply "1: D5", so perhaps the German Church History Maps Index is the page that should be fixed -- it is the only one that uses a link instead of a simple number to refer to the map number in the Index page.

The Study Helps page for German is of course different from English, because there is no Bible on this site, and thus no Bible Dictionary.

But it is odd that the main menu link "Studienhilfen" (Study Helps) takes you to a page (http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/helps/contents) that is titled "Schriftenführer" (Guide to the Scriptures). In every other case, the menu item takes you to a page with the same title as the menu item.

The Introduction to the Guide to the scriptures (http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/helps/introduction) has an odd first paragraph. It refers entirely to the Alphabetical Index, and so it should be moved down to be under the paragraph numbered "1". It makes no sense in its current position.

Also, the last line of the Introduction is not formatted like the other rows, so the JSÜ abbreviation sticks out to the right and doesn't line up with the other abbrevations.

This issue is not related to a particular language -- it seems to affect all languages.

You mark a scripture by holding down the Alt key, clicking a scripture, then releasing the Alt key. In IE, when you do this, your next click is ignored. It doesn't matter whether your are clicking in the browser window, or even anywhere in the IE UI (even the Dialog Close button in the upper right corner of the IE dialog box).

In Firefox it works fine -- your next click after marking a scripture actually does something. The problem with IE may well be one of the many odd quirks of IE, and there is nothing you can do about it, but I thought I should mention it.

I don't know if the test plan is poorly worded, or if the web site is not functioning correctly.

When I use the URL http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/dc/88/123, it merely displays the start of D&C Section 88. It does not display verse 123, although if I scroll down to verse 123, I see that verse 123 is indeed highlighted. Yet the test plan says "Validate that the specified scripture is displayed and highlighted." -- verse 123 is not displayed, so the what is specified in the test plan is not happening. I would guess that the functionality is correct, and the test plan should simply say "Validate that the specified scripture is highlighted."

Step 43 of the test plan talks about using # to cause the page to scroll to the verse; indeed, if I use http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/dc/88/123#123, not only is the verse highlighted, but it is also displayed.

The "Hide Footnote Indicators" setting under Options is not respected when the URL option "Format for print" is used. This is a problem in all languages.

To duplicate this, go into Options and check the box "Hide Footnote Indicators." When you view a set of scriptures, you will see no footnote indicators. For example, go to http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/dc/13.

But if you use the "Format for print" setting on the URL, the footnote indicators appear, regardless of the setting in Options. Go to http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/dc/13?print=1 and you will see footnote indicators.

It seems to me that the print format is the last place you would want footnote indicators, since the footnotes are not printed, and there are also no hyperlinks associated with the footnotes. There's a good argument to be made that footnotes indicators should never be displayed in the print format, regardless of the setting in Options, but at the very least, that setting should be respected.

Alan_Brown wrote:I'm not talking about phonetic searching, but rather word forms. There is a distinct difference. Phonetic searching would help you find the word "repentance" even if you mistakenly search for "repentence". That's a nice feature, but not that big of a deal in my opinion.

But word form searching is much more helpful, and has nothing to do with "sounds like"...

This is some times called word stemming.

This is an issue for all languages.

There are some verses in the scriptures that have useful cross references, but have no footnotes. For such verses, there is no way (at least that I can find) in the user interface to get to the cross references. The only way to see the cross references is to create a URL with the cr=1 parameter. For example, see http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/dc/9/7a?cr=1.

For most verses, you can click on one of the footnote references. For example, on http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/dc/9/8 you can click on the first linked word "study", which will display the footnotes. From this page, there is a button that says "Show Cross-References" which you can of course click in order to see the cross references for verse 8.

But there is no way to do that for verse 7, because it has no footnotes. No normal user is ever going to see the cross references for verse 7. Perhaps in the situation where a verse has no footnotes, but does have cross-references, the verse number could become a link that takes you straight to the cross-references.

Printing some of the Bible maps in IE7 results in blank pages being printed. The worst example is map 12 -- see http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/biblemaps/12. It printed the first page, with just the header and title. Then it printed 2 blank pages, then the map, then the two pages of place descriptions, then one more blank page. If you have specified a header or footer in Page Setup, then those will print, but nothing else is on the blank pages.

It works fine in Firefox, and fine in English even in IE -- no blank pages are printed in these cases.

I have completed the test plan for the German version of the beta scriptures. Well, I did cut a few corners:

• I reviewed everything in IE7, and then when I found problems, and suspected that they might be caused by IE-specific problems, I would see how it worked in Firefox.
• In some cases I did some sampling. For example, on step 25 I checked out every standard work, and every book, and every bit of introductory material, but I didn't check every single chapter of Alma to make sure it was written in German. Similarly, for the maps and photos, I viewed every photo and map, but for printing, I only checked out the first and last and several inbetween.

Some final minor suggestions for the test plan:

• Step 41: You might want to include the option for non-contiguous verses, which did seem to work, e.g., http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/dc/88 ... 0,22,27-30
• Step 47: The sample URL seems to be redirected; you might want to choose an example that matches the current URL structure.
• Step 30: We're asked to verify that some items are found in the Study Helps, when they are only present for English. In this step and a few others, it might be helpful to make the instructions less confusing for non-English languages.

Finally, I would note that I still owe Stewart some research on that odd bug where Options aren't saved in IE on one (and only one) of my computers. I'll see what I can find out.

Downloaded your updated "Online Scriptures Community Test Plan.doc". Are you still having people chose languages to test/review? I speak both English and Spanish, but could test whichever language you prefer.

Auman wrote:Downloaded your updated "Online Scriptures Community Test Plan.doc". Are you still having people chose languages to test/review? I speak both English and Spanish, but could test whichever language you prefer.

Yes, we need more help. Can you pick a language such as Danish, Dutch, or Tongan?

Tom

Awesome work! Thanks for the efforts!

Tom

Alan_Brown wrote:I have completed the test plan for the German version of the beta scriptures. Well, I did cut a few corners:

• I reviewed everything in IE7, and then when I found problems, and suspected that they might be caused by IE-specific problems, I would see how it worked in Firefox.
• In some cases I did some sampling. For example, on step 25 I checked out every standard work, and every book, and every bit of introductory material, but I didn't check every single chapter of Alma to make sure it was written in German. Similarly, for the maps and photos, I viewed every photo and map, but for printing, I only checked out the first and last and several inbetween.

Some final minor suggestions for the test plan:

• Step 41: You might want to include the option for non-contiguous verses, which did seem to work, e.g., http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/dc/88 ... 0,22,27-30
• Step 47: The sample URL seems to be redirected; you might want to choose an example that matches the current URL structure.
• Step 30: We're asked to verify that some items are found in the Study Helps, when they are only present for English. In this step and a few others, it might be helpful to make the instructions less confusing for non-English languages.

Finally, I would note that I still owe Stewart some research on that odd bug where Options aren't saved in IE on one (and only one) of my computers. I'll see what I can find out.

Alan_Brown wrote:The LuB (D&C) Chronological Order of Contents at http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/dc/chrono is mostly in German, but the Ort (Place) column appears to be in Spanish.

In the Church History Maps Index of Place-Names at http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/chmaps/index, there is a spurious paragraph break in the middle of a sentence. In English, it is all one paragraph.

In the Bible Maps Index of Place-Names at http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/biblemaps/index, the reference system is described as "Die Eintragung für Rabba (Amman) auf der ersten Karte beispielsweise ist 1: D5—d.h. Karte 1, Quadrat D5." But the entries don't actually appear like "1: D5"; rather they appear as "1. Physische Karte des Heiligen Landes: D5 ". However, in English, both the Church History Index of Place-Names and the index for Bible Maps describe the reference system as simply "1: D5", so perhaps the German Church History Maps Index is the page that should be fixed -- it is the only one that uses a link instead of a simple number to refer to the map number in the Index page.

Reported to the developers.

Thanks

Alan_Brown wrote:I have completed the test plan for the German version of the beta scriptures. Well, I did cut a few corners:

• I reviewed everything in IE7, and then when I found problems, and suspected that they might be caused by IE-specific problems, I would see how it worked in Firefox.
• In some cases I did some sampling. For example, on step 25 I checked out every standard work, and every book, and every bit of introductory material, but I didn't check every single chapter of Alma to make sure it was written in German. Similarly, for the maps and photos, I viewed every photo and map, but for printing, I only checked out the first and last and several inbetween.

Some final minor suggestions for the test plan:

• Step 41: You might want to include the option for non-contiguous verses, which did seem to work, e.g., http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/de/dc/88 ... 0,22,27-30
• Step 47: The sample URL seems to be redirected; you might want to choose an example that matches the current URL structure.
• Step 30: We're asked to verify that some items are found in the Study Helps, when they are only present for English. In this step and a few others, it might be helpful to make the instructions less confusing for non-English languages.

Finally, I would note that I still owe Stewart some research on that odd bug where Options aren't saved in IE on one (and only one) of my computers. I'll see what I can find out.

Great work Alan, Thanks for the help. I've reproduced and reported most of the issues you found as well as updated the sections of the test plan that you suggested. I'll post a new test plan.

Just so everyone is clear here, Tongan is not part of this release therefore you will not see it on the web site. The new languages for this release are Danish, Dutch and Hungarian and we need help testing these languages.

We also need help testing previously shipped languages which include English, Portuguese, Italian, Spanish and French however since these languages have already been tested we only need to make sure there are not any obvious problems with these languages ie.. make sure word searches work, options, marking, help, and basic navigation.

Thanks!

The German copyright notice at the bottom of each page has an English word:

© 2006 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc. Alle Rechte vorbehalten.

"by" is not particularly German. Pretty much every German copyright notice I can find has no preposition anyway, so you can just remove the "by":

© 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. Alle Rechte vorbehalten.

Also, is the year 2006 correct? I'm no expert on copyright law, but perhaps it should be 2006-2008 or 2006,2008 to indicate the dates of the original, as well as the new content. All the languages use 2006 for the copyright date.

The Dutch copyright notice on the bottom of each page displays © rather than ©. Apparently the ampersand got encoded (only in Dutch), so that the source says © (which gets rendered as © ) rather than © (which gets rendered as ©).

tomw wrote:Yes, we need more help. Can you pick a language such as Danish, Dutch, or Tongan?

Tom

Sure, I'll get started on Dutch.

Alan_Brown wrote:The German copyright notice at the bottom of each page has an English word:

© 2006 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc. Alle Rechte vorbehalten.

"by" is not particularly German. Pretty much every German copyright notice I can find has no preposition anyway, so you can just remove the "by":

© 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. Alle Rechte vorbehalten.

Also, is the year 2006 correct? I'm no expert on copyright law, but perhaps it should be 2006-2008 or 2006,2008 to indicate the dates of the original, as well as the new content. All the languages use 2006 for the copyright date.

Thanks Alan. I'll let the copyright office weigh in on the date issue. I'll forward the other comments to the developers.

Tom

Alan_Brown wrote:The Dutch copyright notice on the bottom of each page displays © rather than ©. Apparently the ampersand got encoded (only in Dutch), so that the source says © (which gets rendered as © ) rather than © (which gets rendered as ©).

Great catch!

Tom

tomw wrote:Yes, we need more help. Can you pick a language such as Danish, Dutch, or Tongan?

Tom

I see Deutsch, English, Español, Français, Magyar, Italiano, Nederlands and Português, but I do not see Tongan (even when viewing the source HTML).

I don't speak Tongan, but I did the typesetting for the Liahona and the Hymnal in Tongan and am very familiar with looking at it and recognizing structural problems.

SingerGuy59 wrote:I see Deutsch, English, Español, Français, Magyar, Italiano, Nederlands and Português, but I do not see Tongan (even when viewing the source HTML).

I don't speak Tongan, but I did the typesetting for the Liahona and the Hymnal in Tongan and am very familiar with looking at it and recognizing structural problems.

Stewart Peatross, QA Manager for this project, clarified in this post that Tongan is not part of this particular release of the scriptures. Tom must have temporarily forgotten that.

So feel free to pick another language; I doubt anyone is going to know Hungarian, but as Tom explained in the opening post of this thread, you can test without being familiar with a language.

SingerGuy59 wrote:I see Deutsch, English, Español, Français, Magyar, Italiano, Nederlands and Português, but I do not see Tongan (even when viewing the source HTML).

I don't speak Tongan, but I did the typesetting for the Liahona and the Hymnal in Tongan and am very familiar with looking at it and recognizing structural problems.

There is no Tongan with this release of the scriptures, sorry about the confusion here. The new languages for this release of the scriptures are Danish (Dansk) Dutch (Nederlands) and Hungarian (Magyar).

Thanks for your help!

I just wanted to let everyone know that we do have a time line for our testing. We would like to finish testing the following languages Danish, Dutch and Hungarian by Wednesday June 11th.

I searched for the exact phrase "akkor Isten". The result set included many scriptures that did have those words, but they were not always together in that order to form that exact phrase; for example, Alma 30:47.

http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/hu/search?type=words&last=%22akkor+Isten%22&help=&wo=checked&search=%22akkor+Isten%22&iw=scriptures&tx=checked&hd=checked&fn=checked&af=checked&hw=checked&sw=checked&bw=1

The search results should only include verses that contain the exact phrase.

The Options page (http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/hu/options) has English text by the 4th check box. It says "Topical Guide (TG) utalások".

Not only is "Topical Guide" in English, but the TG doesn't match the GS that I see down below in the help text. Also, the whole set of abbreviations seems rather English -- except for HEB, which is close to "Héber" (Hungarian for Hebrew), the abbreviations HEB, IE, OR, GS don't seem to match the corresponding Hungarian words.

Alan_Brown wrote:The Options page (http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/hu/options) has English text by the 4th check box. It says "Topical Guide (TG) utalások".

Not only is "Topical Guide" in English, but the TG doesn't match the GS that I see down below in the help text. Also, the whole set of abbreviations seems rather English -- except for HEB, which is close to "Héber" (Hungarian for Hebrew), the abbreviations HEB, IE, OR, GS don't seem to match the corresponding Hungarian words.

Reported to development thanks!

The wildcard search operator work ok in Hungarian, but there is one oddity.

When you search for full words, typing in letters with no accents, the search will find words with accented versions of the specified letters. For example, searching for "Laman"

http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/hu/searc ... ecked&bw=1

will match the word Lámán, even though I didn't put the accented a in the search text.

But then if I try to search for "Lama*" I don't get any matches. Yet if I search for "Lámá*" I find lots of matches. It seems like "a" should always match "á" or it should never match it, regardless of whether I also include a wildcard.

This may just be a problem with the test plan, but the first sentence of step 19 says the options apply to searches, and item 19g calls them "search options" and says you should verify them in search results.

http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/en/options

However, the option for Chapter Margin width does not apply to search results. The search results always seem to be displayed with narrow margins, even if you have set your margins to wide. The Chapter Margins setting does properly affect the margins when you are browsing the scriptures -- just not in the search results. This seems to work the same in all languages.

Also, except for the Default search option, all the other options affect the way scriptures are displayed everywhere, whether it is in a search or just browsing the scriptures. So it's a bit confusing to describe these as "search options," and we should be testing that they work properly while browsing the scriptures, as well as in search results.

In Hungarian, there do not seem to be any exclusions for common words. Now I do not speak Hungarian, but in any text practically every sentence seems to have plenty of instances of "és" and "a", and there are also many case of "ne", "az", "ő". But each of those words produces search results. So I'm guessing that Hungarian has nothing in the common words list.

Here is a search for "és" that matches well over half the verses in the scriptures:

http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/hu/searc ... ecked&bw=1

It appears that the text in the D&C Chronological Index has some text in Danish, where it should be Hungarian. Go to http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/hu/dc/chrono and look at the Place column for sections 61 and 62. It says "Ved Missourifloden, Missouri" which looks like Danish to me.

Note that the Place text for section 136, which seems to be the only other non-English text in that column, appears to be in Hungarian as it should be. However, in all the other languages "Liberty Jail" (sec. 121-123) is translated, but in Hungarian it is not. The word "County" is usually translated as well, but is not in Hungarian (yet in the text of the D&C, "Jackson County" is translated to "Jackson megyében").

In many of the Bible Maps, the character "ő" is rendered as a large "Œ". Now I don't know Hungarian, so I don't know if that might be proper, but it is rendered as "Œ" in the actual maps, but never in the text. Take, for example, map 12 at http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/hu/biblemaps/12.

Observe in the map just above the circled 16, that there is an item labeled "FelsŒ szoba", but if you look down below in the explanatory text for item 16, it is called "Felső szoba". I thought that perhaps that "Œ" was the uppercase version of "ő", but then I noticed that the heading to maps 10, 11, and 14 all have the word "IDŐKBEN" in them, which has an upper case version of "ő".

It just seems odd that this character would be rendered so much larger and looking different in the maps than it is anywhere else. The character appears many times in over half the maps.

Alan_Brown wrote:This may just be a problem with the test plan, but the first sentence of step 19 says the options apply to searches, and item 19g calls them "search options" and says you should verify them in search results.

http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/en/options

However, the option for Chapter Margin width does not apply to search results. The search results always seem to be displayed with narrow margins, even if you have set your margins to wide. The Chapter Margins setting does properly affect the margins when you are browsing the scriptures -- just not in the search results. This seems to work the same in all languages.

Also, except for the Default search option, all the other options affect the way scriptures are displayed everywhere, whether it is in a search or just browsing the scriptures. So it's a bit confusing to describe these as "search options," and we should be testing that they work properly while browsing the scriptures, as well as in search results.

Alan, thanks for pointing this out. I've updated the test plan with your suggestions and will post a new version later.

In Church History Map 3 (http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/hu/chmaps/3), the Finger Lakes are labeled as "Finger Lakes", yet the word "Lake" is translated everywhere else (for example, "Lake Erie" is "Erie-tó").

In some of the maps (notably map 6) the same issue I reported with Bible maps appears, where ő is rendered as Œ. Also in map 6, "California Trail" is not translated, but perhaps that is appropriate -- in the map index (http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/hu/chindex/3), there is an entry for "California Trail" (all English).

SingerGuy59 wrote:I see Deutsch, English, Español, Français, Magyar, Italiano, Nederlands and Português, but I do not see Tongan (even when viewing the source HTML).

I don't speak Tongan, but I did the typesetting for the Liahona and the Hymnal in Tongan and am very familiar with looking at it and recognizing structural problems.

When I originally made the post, we had Tongan in the build. This was a mistake. I guess the secret is out...Tongan will come soon but will be in the next release cycle!

Tom

Alan_Brown wrote:In Church History Map 3 (http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/hu/chmaps/3), the Finger Lakes are labeled as "Finger Lakes", yet the word "Lake" is translated everywhere else (for example, "Lake Erie" is "Erie-tó").

In some of the maps (notably map 6) the same issue I reported with Bible maps appears, where ő is rendered as Œ. Also in map 6, "California Trail" is not translated, but perhaps that is appropriate -- in the map index (http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/hu/chindex/3), there is an entry for "California Trail" (all English).

Thanks Alan for pointing this out. This is a known problem with the translation of the map text.

Alan_Brown wrote:... it is still the case that I can only reproduce this on my home computer -- neither my work computer nor my laptop has the problem (both running IE7). I don't know what is different about my home computer. So the remainder of this post can be taken with a grain of salt at this point.

Specifically, with IE, when you change options and then Save Options, if you then go back into the Options page without exiting the browser, the options appear to be reset back to the way they were when you entered the Options page before making the change. And yet the options were indeed changed, as is clear from the appearance of the footnote indicator. However, if you exit the browser and come back in, the Options page will finally actually reflect the changed options.

I promised to do some research on the above issue. I still can't quite explain it, and it still happens on just that one computer; however, I do have some additional information.

When I change some options, save, then go back into the Options page, the options still appear to be the way they were before I made the change. But at that point I can do a browser Refresh, and then the new options do indeed appear.

I don't know why I never tried a Refresh before, but it certainly does shed some light on the nature of the problem. The issue is clearly related to the way IE caches pages. I can't find any settings in Internet Options that would affect this. Why it is trusting the cached version of the page in just this case is beyond me, but it's not as big a problem as I thought at first.

I have completed the test plan for the Hungarian version of the beta scriptures. As with my German review, I cut a few corners:

• I reviewed everything in IE7, and then when I found problems, and suspected that they might be caused by IE-specific problems, I would see how it worked in Firefox.
• In some cases I did some sampling. For example, on step 25 I checked out every standard work, and every book, and every bit of introductory material, but I didn't check every single chapter of every book to make sure it was written in Hungarian. Similarly, for the maps and photos, I viewed every photo and map, but for printing, I only checked out the first and last and several in between.

I passed TomW's initial post to someone I know who speaks Danish fluently, but he's pretty busy and hasn't gotten to it yet. I know you were hoping to wrap this up by tomorrow. If you still need help, I could tackle another language over the weekend, but I won't have much time before then.

I'll work on the Danish version.

Layne Sybrowsky

sybrowsky wrote:I'll work on the Danish version.

Layne Sybrowsky

Thanks for your help Layne. Let me know if you run into anything. Also if you can periodically post a message letting us know where your at with your testing that would be helpful as well.

Thanks again for your service.
Stewart Peatross

Everyone,

Just wanted to let everyone know that we still in need help testing the scriptures. We have currently covered Hungarian, German and are working on Danish and Dutch. You do not need to know how to speak the language to test that language. We are only testing functionality and not translation. We do however want you to watch for a mix of languages. For example English text appearing in the Hungarian version of the scriptures.

Our main focus for this release is Danish, Dutch and Hungarian however we would also like to do a good spot check test on previously released languages due to the fact that sometimes adding new languages may have an affect on previously released languages. If you are spot check testing previously released Languages (anything other than Danish, Dutch and Hungarian) you can use the test plan as a guide to help you know what to do and look for.

If you want to work on a language be sure to post a message stating which language you are taking. We then would like you to periodically let us know how your doing. Post as often as you can letting us know the issues you are finding with each test in the test plan. If you do not find any issues and you have completed your test post a message letting us know that no issues where found and that you have completed the language and run through each test in the test plan.

If you could take a look at Alan Browns posts they are exactly what we are looking for. He states which languages he is working on and in each defect or issue that he finds he lists the test number in the title and in the message body places a link with a description of the problem. Having a link and a good description helps us quickly duplicate the same issue and pass it along to development.

Keep in mind that not every issue will be fixed before we release. You may report issues that will not be fixed with this release. Know that these issues are recorded and kept for consideration for future releases.

Also keep in mind that I may not be able to reply to every post. I have other responsibilities that I have to tend to. I will however read every post and try and duplicate every issue that you find as well as provide some feedback on the status of the issue.

Once we have covered each language then our testing is completed.


Thank you for your service and help with this!

A few errors with the Dutch version of the site:

1) In the main menu in the header of the pages (very top, right of screen) the nav text for "Help" is "Help". I don't speak Dutch, but according to Babel Fish "Help" in Dutch is "Hulp". Babel Fish could be wrong (again, I wouldn't know), but the word "help" is used across the whole site (e.g. see http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/nl/search?type=marked and the content of http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/nl/help). Note: "hulp" in Dutch may be more properly rendered "aid", so this item may not be an issue. In performing a scripture search both "help" and "hulp" came up.

2) The copyright notice in the footer of the pages shows up as © instead of the copyright sign (which is interesting as © is the correct ASCII character code). The copyright notice is also in English "© 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.". I'm using FF 2.0.0.14.

3) In the footer the links Informatie over rechten en gebruik and Privacybeleid both go to English versions of the pages ("Rights and use information" and "Privacy policy", respectively), as opposed to the Dutch versions of those pages.

Note: for the above items see http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/nl/.

4) When I perform a word search (any search that has matching results) the phrase "alle vormen van het woord ************ in de Tekst van de Schriften}, sorted by relevance." is displayed at the top of the screen, where ************ is the search string. The right curly bracket, }, and the following English text "sorted by relevance" is the concern. E.g., see http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/nl/searc ... &do=Zoeken.

5) When I perform a topic search (any search that has matching results) the phrase "Geselecteerde verwijzingen in de Schriften in verband met het onderwerp ************, sorted by relevance." is displayed at the top of the screen, where ************ is the search string. The English text "sorted by relevance" is the concern. E.g., see http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/nl/searc ... st=checked.

6) Is "matching" a Dutch word for the English word "matching" (an unlikely cognate being a gerund)? I ask as the text at the top of a "Study Helps Search" (when a search is performed) is "Titels in de studiemiddelen matching ************.", where ************ is the search string.

Also, another minor concern (could be a general problem): on the search page (whether in English or in Dutch) when one hovers over the links in the search menu (i.e. the links for Word Search, Topic Search, Study Helps Search, Reference Search, and Marked References) the cursor stays in the "hovering over text" state (looks like an "I") instead of the "hovering over a link" state (closed fist with thumb and index finger out). It just seems weird to see that, I was surprised the menu items worked as links the first time I used them because of this.

That's it for now, although I'm not done testing...

Auman wrote:A few errors with the Dutch version of the site:

1) In the main menu in the header of the pages (very top, right of screen) the nav text for "Help" is "Help". I don't speak Dutch, but according to Babel Fish "Help" in Dutch is "Hulp". Babel Fish could be wrong (again, I wouldn't know), but the word "help" is used across the whole site (e.g. see http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/nl/search?type=marked and the content of http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/nl/help). Note: "hulp" in Dutch may be more properly rendered "aid", so this item may not be an issue. In performing a scripture search both "help" and "hulp" came up.

2) The copyright notice in the footer of the pages shows up as © instead of the copyright sign (which is interesting as © is the correct ASCII character code). The copyright notice is also in English "© 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.". I'm using FF 2.0.0.14.

3) In the footer the links Informatie over rechten en gebruik and Privacybeleid both go to English versions of the pages ("Rights and use information" and "Privacy policy", respectively), as opposed to the Dutch versions of those pages.

Note: for the above items see http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/nl/.

4) When I perform a word search (any search that has matching results) the phrase "alle vormen van het woord ************ in de Tekst van de Schriften}, sorted by relevance." is displayed at the top of the screen, where ************ is the search string. The right curly bracket, }, and the following English text "sorted by relevance" is the concern. E.g., see http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/nl/searc ... &do=Zoeken.

5) When I perform a topic search (any search that has matching results) the phrase "Geselecteerde verwijzingen in de Schriften in verband met het onderwerp ************, sorted by relevance." is displayed at the top of the screen, where ************ is the search string. The English text "sorted by relevance" is the concern. E.g., see http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/nl/searc ... st=checked.

6) Is "matching" a Dutch word for the English word "matching" (an unlikely cognate being a gerund)? I ask as the text at the top of a "Study Helps Search" (when a search is performed) is "Titels in de studiemiddelen matching ************.", where ************ is the search string.

Also, another minor concern (could be a general problem): on the search page (whether in English or in Dutch) when one hovers over the links in the search menu (i.e. the links for Word Search, Topic Search, Study Helps Search, Reference Search, and Marked References) the cursor stays in the "hovering over text" state (looks like an "I") instead of the "hovering over a link" state (closed fist with thumb and index finger out). It just seems weird to see that, I was surprised the menu items worked as links the first time I used them because of this.

That's it for now, although I'm not done testing...

Thanks Auman this is great work. Here is some information for the issues you found.

1 - I'm not sure myself. I'll be sure to pass this along to development and translation though. Seems to me that it should be Hulp. We will definitely find out before we release to the public.
2- This issue has been reported and will appear in every language of the scriptures.
3- This is actually an external link to the public http://www.lds.org web site. Every language of the scriptures links to these pages which are not translated into different languages. We do need to find a better solution for this which may include simply having local copies of the pages which would then be translated, unless of course the Church changes them in the future then that could be a problem since we would then have an out dated local copy. Hmmm..
4- Nice catch. This will be reported to development.
5- Another nice catch. Should be fixed when issue number 4 is fixed.
6- I have no idea This is the tricky part of testing different languages simple because it could be a valid word. I'll pass it along and find out.
7- Regarding hovering over the search links. You must be using Firefox because in IE the mouse cursor changes to the pointing hand when you hover over the objects. It's something that needs to be fixed however it may not happen with this release. They may have to change the object types to something that works better with firefox.

These are all great issues! Thanks for the hard work and time you are spending.
Stewart Peatross

In regards to item 7, I'm using Fire Fox 2.0.0.14. I've also tested it in IE 6/7 and Safari 3.1, and it works fine with those browsers. Haven't tried Opera or any of the less common browsers yet.

Q: Is anyone testing out the site on handheld devices (Blackberries, Web-capable phones, iPhones, etc) or with screen readers (for the visually impaired)?

Thanks.
Andrew Auman

I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask this question, but when beta.scriptures.lds.org becomes the new scriptures.lds.org will the links be permanent (or will permanent links be made available)? I have a wiki on my laptop which I use to keep track of my notes from personal scripture study and I would love to be able to link to the Church's online gospel archive for references (since an XML version of the content isn't available). However, if all of the links change in the future it would make a mess for me.


Andrew Auman

Auman wrote:I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask this question, but when beta.scriptures.lds.org becomes the new scriptures.lds.org will the links be permanent (or will permanent links be made available)? I have a wiki on my laptop which I use to keep track of my notes from personal scripture study and I would love to be able to link to the Church's online gospel archive for references (since an XML version of the content isn't available). However, if all of the links change in the future it would make a mess for me.


Andrew Auman

http://tech.lds.org/index.php?option=co ... &Itemid=79

This document doesn't say anything about links being permanent, but since it is a URL strategy the Church is trying to follow keeping the community in mind, I bet it won't change much (if at all).

Auman wrote:In regards to item 7, I'm using Fire Fox 2.0.0.14. I've also tested it in IE 6/7 and Safari 3.1, and it works fine with those browsers. Haven't tried Opera or any of the less common browsers yet.

Q: Is anyone testing out the site on handheld devices (Blackberries, Web-capable phones, iPhones, etc) or with screen readers (for the visually impaired)?

Thanks.
Andrew Auman

Not that I know of. I know that some of the developers have hand held devices that they occasionally test with. Someone needs to buy me an iPhone.

Auman wrote:I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask this question, but when beta.scriptures.lds.org becomes the new scriptures.lds.org will the links be permanent (or will permanent links be made available)? I have a wiki on my laptop which I use to keep track of my notes from personal scripture study and I would love to be able to link to the Church's online gospel archive for references (since an XML version of the content isn't available). However, if all of the links change in the future it would make a mess for me.


Andrew Auman

I wouldn't count on the links always remaining the same. As we introduce new languages it may require some adjustments to the current structure.

Auman wrote:A few errors with the Dutch version of the site:

1) In the main menu in the header of the pages (very top, right of screen) the nav text for "Help" is "Help". I don't speak Dutch, but according to Babel Fish "Help" in Dutch is "Hulp". Babel Fish could be wrong (again, I wouldn't know), but the word "help" is used across the whole site (e.g. see http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/nl/search?type=marked and the content of http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/nl/help). Note: "hulp" in Dutch may be more properly rendered "aid", so this item may not be an issue. In performing a scripture search both "help" and "hulp" came up.

2) The copyright notice in the footer of the pages shows up as © instead of the copyright sign (which is interesting as © is the correct ASCII character code). The copyright notice is also in English "© 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.". I'm using FF 2.0.0.14.

3) In the footer the links Informatie over rechten en gebruik and Privacybeleid both go to English versions of the pages ("Rights and use information" and "Privacy policy", respectively), as opposed to the Dutch versions of those pages.

Note: for the above items see http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/nl/.

4) When I perform a word search (any search that has matching results) the phrase "alle vormen van het woord ************ in de Tekst van de Schriften}, sorted by relevance." is displayed at the top of the screen, where ************ is the search string. The right curly bracket, }, and the following English text "sorted by relevance" is the concern. E.g., see http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/nl/searc ... &do=Zoeken.

5) When I perform a topic search (any search that has matching results) the phrase "Geselecteerde verwijzingen in de Schriften in verband met het onderwerp ************, sorted by relevance." is displayed at the top of the screen, where ************ is the search string. The English text "sorted by relevance" is the concern. E.g., see http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/nl/searc ... st=checked.

6) Is "matching" a Dutch word for the English word "matching" (an unlikely cognate being a gerund)? I ask as the text at the top of a "Study Helps Search" (when a search is performed) is "Titels in de studiemiddelen matching ************.", where ************ is the search string.

Also, another minor concern (could be a general problem): on the search page (whether in English or in Dutch) when one hovers over the links in the search menu (i.e. the links for Word Search, Topic Search, Study Helps Search, Reference Search, and Marked References) the cursor stays in the "hovering over text" state (looks like an "I") instead of the "hovering over a link" state (closed fist with thumb and index finger out). It just seems weird to see that, I was surprised the menu items worked as links the first time I used them because of this.

That's it for now, although I'm not done testing...

Auman,

I just wanted to let you know that the bracket } in issue 4 will be fixed. The rest have to go through translation "sorted by relevance" "Help" vs "Hulp" etc... The issue with the mouse over in search is a Firefox problem and cannot be fixed on our end.

speatross wrote:Reported to development thanks!

This has been fixed.

Alan_Brown wrote:The Options page (http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/hu/options) has English text by the 4th check box. It says "Topical Guide (TG) utalások".

Not only is "Topical Guide" in English, but the TG doesn't match the GS that I see down below in the help text. Also, the whole set of abbreviations seems rather English -- except for HEB, which is close to "Héber" (Hungarian for Hebrew), the abbreviations HEB, IE, OR, GS don't seem to match the corresponding Hungarian words.

This is fixed. The fix is not in the current version that you will find on beta.scriptures.lds.org.

4.d) This works but the text being input is passed through directly. No HTML escaping is done. Javascript anyone?

5.d) The search seems to work correctly when searching for "foi" (faith). However, there's a combination of French/English that is returned:

"FOIAll forms of the word FOI dans le Texte du Écritures, sorted by relevance.TexteÉcritures"

Note that the above spacing is actual -- missing spaces and all.

6.d) When doing a topical search the searched-for-topic is concatenated on the right without a space:

"Références sélectionnées dans le Écritures en rapport avec topic sorted by relevance.ESPERANCE"

I finished up through all of six and will try to continue on 7 soon.

--Kpederson

kpederson wrote:4.d) This works but the text being input is passed through directly. No HTML escaping is done. Javascript anyone?

5.d) The search seems to work correctly when searching for "foi" (faith). However, there's a combination of French/English that is returned:

"FOIAll forms of the word FOI dans le Texte du Écritures, sorted by relevance.TexteÉcritures"

Note that the above spacing is actual -- missing spaces and all.

6.d) When doing a topical search the searched-for-topic is concatenated on the right without a space:

"Références sélectionnées dans le Écritures en rapport avec topic sorted by relevance.ESPERANCE"

I finished up through all of six and will try to continue on 7 soon.

--Kpederson

Kpederson,

Thanks for your help with French. Issues 1 and 2 have been reported and I will forward your third issue on to development. When you report issues it's helpful for me if you could include a link.

Thanks and keep us posted on how you are doing.

Perhaps this is already included in the bug report you mentioned in your earlier post, but the search box passes text through to HTML directly. For example, on the page http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/fr/contents, if you search for “<FOI>”, it generates HTML that contains:

<input class='textfield' value="<FOI>"…

7.2) When searching for “esperance” on the gospel study page, some interesting text is displayed:

Titres dans les Aides à létude {0,choice,0#matching|1#containing} {1}

The URL for the above page is:

http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/fr/searc ... =esperance

8.a) Near the top of the page there is a reference to “D&C” which should reference “D&A”. It looks like all the rest is translated correctly.

Also, near the bottom of the page there are some characters which show up as boxes under an up-to-date IE7 (although Firefox 2 shows them correctly). In context, it’s the word “vers” in the following sentence:

“Cette option permet de rechercher toutes les références croisées indiquées dans les notes de bas de page et les aides à l'étude pointant “vers” un verset ou groupe de versets d'Écritures.”

(Note: in previewing this, the boxes turn to curly quotes, but I don't see quotes around it in Firefox, so I'm not sure if that's the wiki)

And here’s the URL:

http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/fr/searc ... p=&search=

9.a) I see some of the same character display problems on this page as I do on the other. For example, surrounding “Annuler” in the following sentence:

(il n'y a pas d'option “Annuler” après avoir supprimé la sélection d'une référence d'Écritures).

And here’s the URL:

http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/fr/searc ... p=&search=

9.d) After marking some verses and going to the selected verses page, the following text shows up in English on the top right:

“Clear Marked References”

Also, in your documentation you indicate that 75 verses are supported. The help description says that 50 verses may be marked.

That’s it for tonight.

--Kpederson

kpederson wrote:Perhaps this is already included in the bug report you mentioned in your earlier post, but the search box passes text through to HTML directly. For example, on the page http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/fr/contents, if you search for “<FOI>”, it generates HTML that contains:

<input class='textfield' value="<FOI>"…

7.2) When searching for “esperance” on the gospel study page, some interesting text is displayed:

Titres dans les Aides à létude {0,choice,0#matching|1#containing} {1}

The URL for the above page is:

http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/fr/searc ... =esperance

8.a) Near the top of the page there is a reference to “D&C” which should reference “D&A”. It looks like all the rest is translated correctly.

Also, near the bottom of the page there are some characters which show up as boxes under an up-to-date IE7 (although Firefox 2 shows them correctly). In context, it’s the word “vers” in the following sentence:

“Cette option permet de rechercher toutes les références croisées indiquées dans les notes de bas de page et les aides à l'étude pointant “vers” un verset ou groupe de versets d'Écritures.”

(Note: in previewing this, the boxes turn to curly quotes, but I don't see quotes around it in Firefox, so I'm not sure if that's the wiki)

And here’s the URL:

http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/fr/searc ... p=&search=

9.a) I see some of the same character display problems on this page as I do on the other. For example, surrounding “Annuler” in the following sentence:

(il n'y a pas d'option “Annuler” après avoir supprimé la sélection d'une référence d'Écritures).

And here’s the URL:

http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/fr/searc ... p=&search=

9.d) After marking some verses and going to the selected verses page, the following text shows up in English on the top right:

“Clear Marked References”

Also, in your documentation you indicate that 75 verses are supported. The help description says that 50 verses may be marked.

That’s it for tonight.

--Kpederson

Kpederson
The first issue regarding HTML appearing when searching is being looked at. Development is looking at masking html when searching.

Thanks for letting me know about the other issues. I've passed them all along to development.
Your doing great work.
Stewart

14.b) In searching for "foi grande" (for which there shouldn't be any exact matches), a number of results show up that are separated by one or more words. Only verses that have both verses appear. "foi extrême" has a number of hits, but also shows a verse that has other separating words, see "Ét 3:9" (the last hit on the page for me).

19.g) This appears to work, but in the processed I noticed something odd. When I lookup up 1 Ne 3:7, it shows a couple of interesting characters in a couple of places - by "j'irai" and "commandements". The text I'm seeing shows up as the following HTML:

^{&#149 ;}'irai

(less the extra spaces that I inserted so the entity didn't get encoded)

&#149 is rendered as a small circle next to the apostrophe, which
The URL is http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/fr/searc ... =footnotes

I've finished up through 20 now.

--Kpederson

kpederson wrote:14.b) In searching for "foi grande" (for which there shouldn't be any exact matches), a number of results show up that are separated by one or more words. Only verses that have both verses appear. "foi extrême" has a number of hits, but also shows a verse that has other separating words, see "Ét 3:9" (the last hit on the page for me).

19.g) This appears to work, but in the processed I noticed something odd. When I lookup up 1 Ne 3:7, it shows a couple of interesting characters in a couple of places - by "j'irai" and "commandements". The text I'm seeing shows up as the following HTML:

^{&#149 ;}'irai

(less the extra spaces that I inserted so the entity didn't get encoded)

&#149 is rendered as a small circle next to the apostrophe, which
The URL is http://beta.scriptures.lds.org/fr/searc ... =footnotes

I've finished up through 20 now.

--Kpederson

Thanks KPederson;

Thanks for your work. The first issue is actually working the way it's suppose to. The search engine will find all occurrences of the phrase as well as scriptures that contain all words in the phrase.

The second issue I'm not able to see.

Thanks for your help
Stewart

I recently found dates that appear incorrect in several chapter headings of the Book of Mormon English version. I haven't checked any other language versions.

The heading for 3 Ne 28 gives the date as Between A.D. 34 and 35. This is correct for the first half of the chapter, but starting in verse 24 the last prophet Mormon begins his commentary. Mormon lived several hundred years later. (According to the chapter headings in Mormon, the prophet Mormon wrote A.D. 322 to 400 or so.)

Mormon's commentary continues in 3 Ne 29 and 30, but both of these chapter headings also specify A.D. 34 and 35 as the date.

Kathryn

Kathryn wrote:I recently found dates that appear incorrect in several chapter headings of the Book of Mormon English version. I haven't checked any other language versions.

The heading for 3 Ne 28 gives the date as Between A.D. 34 and 35. This is correct for the first half of the chapter, but starting in verse 24 the last prophet Mormon begins his commentary. Mormon lived several hundred years later. (According to the chapter headings in Mormon, the prophet Mormon wrote A.D. 322 to 400 or so.)

Mormon's commentary continues in 3 Ne 29 and 30, but both of these chapter headings also specify A.D. 34 and 35 as the date.

Kathryn

Kathryn, thanks for your post. This particular thread in the online scriptures forum is dedicated to testing pre-release languages of the online scriptures. When testing the pre-release version our job is to make sure the online version matches the printed version.

The dates that you mention are also listed in the printed version of 3 Nephi 28, 29 and 30. The online version of the scriptures matches the dates found in the printed versions which means the translation of the online version is correct.

Thanks.
Stewart

Any chance we could find out a general unofficial timetable for some of the other languages we are waiting for? Russian is my personal interest, as I know the re-translation was being worked more than 10 years ago. Generalities are fine, such as, this decade, within two years, not sooner than x months, etc... Thanks.

dobrichelovek wrote:Any chance we could find out a general unofficial timetable for some of the other languages we are waiting for? Russian is my personal interest, as I know the re-translation was being worked more than 10 years ago. Generalities are fine, such as, this decade, within two years, not sooner than x months, etc... Thanks.

All I can say is that it is on the list of languages to push but it has not been scheduled yet. Sorry for not having a clearer answer.

Tom

tomw wrote:All I can say is that it is on the list of languages to push but it has not been scheduled yet. Sorry for not having a clearer answer.

Tom

I didn't quite mean THAT general! Thanks though.

I saw that the chinese version of the triple-combination has been posted (according to the lds.org website) and I was curious what was queued up next. I went to the beta.scriptures.lds.org website and noticed that (although it was down over the holidays) it now requires authentication. Is that temporary, or is it going to be invitation-only going forward?

Thanks.

dobrichelovek wrote:I saw that the chinese version of the triple-combination has been posted (according to the lds.org website) and I was curious what was queued up next. I went to the beta.scriptures.lds.org website and noticed that (although it was down over the holidays) it now requires authentication. Is that temporary, or is it going to be invitation-only going forward?

Thanks.

You can still log onto beta.scriptures.lds.org and participate in beta testing the online scriptures. Send me an E-mail and I will give you the log in credentials. My E-mail is peatrosssc@ldschurch.org.