Donations Received via Bill Payer Service

My ward has begun to receive donation checks within Bill Payer Envelopes. These envelopes don't contain any Donation Form and any allocation list is printed on check, itself.

During donation processing within Clerks' Office, at this point, we've had to stop, find a paper donation form and manually fill it in. :rolleyes:

Using an OpenOffice 4-column spreadsheet, we've generated a soft copy Donation Form, based on paper version 5/01, 31592.

This we have posted as an Excel file to News & Information (N&I) page of our Local Unit Web Site (LUWS).

We've included the following comment to accompany this downloadable form.

----- Begin N & I Post -----
Attached spreadsheet, provides an alternative to using standard 2 ply donation slip -- top white sheet, with yellow pen pressure transfer paper underneath.

After entering data within spreadsheet cells, print 2 copies, one for personal record and another copy to enclose, along with check(s), cash and coin(s), within Donation Envelope.

If using Bill Payer Service, which generates a check for delivery to Bishop via USPS, prepare a separate Donation Envelope containing this donation allocation list and give to any member of Bishopric. If available, do include Check Number and Date from on-line Bill Payer Service. Financial Clerk needs to keep a copy of what each member or family has listed as being donated.

If check from Bill Payer has an undetachable itemized listing of donations as part of check itself, then Financial Clerk and Bishopric member need to stop and hand write a copy for ward records. This slows processing of all Sunday donations. Please help by giving us a separate itemized list for Clerks' Office retention.

Thanks
----- End N & I Post -----

H. Forth wrote:My ward has begun to receive donation checks within Bill Payer Envelopes. These envelopes don't contain any Donation Form and any allocation list is printed on check, itself.

... Using an OpenOffice 4-column spreadsheet, we've generated a soft copy Donation Form, based on paper version 5/01, 31592. This we have posted as an Excel file to News & Information (N&I) page of our Local Unit Web Site (LUWS).

A comment and a question:

First of all, for all the reasons you chose to post your form in Excel format to your LUWS, it would be a good idea to use Excel format to post spreadsheets to this forum. I personally don't have Open Office on every computer I may use to view this forum, so the .ods format is not too helpful.

Second, I'm curious how this is working out for you. I would think that the reason that many people use a bill pay service is that they can set it up and be done with it. They then don't have to remember on Sunday to write a check or fill out a form. This process that you have set up seems like a great help to the clerks, but might be perceived as a hassle by the donors. Are people actually complying with your request, or do you still get a lot of bill pay mailings from people who don't turn in a corresponding donation form?

When we receive these types of donations In our clerk's office we first look at the check for comments regarding categories. 95% of them so far have the categories and donation amounts listed. We then fill out a slip for them and include it in the batch. It's not that big of a deal for us, in fact sometimes I will give them the yellow copy the following Sunday for their records.

For those without any categories noted we give them a quick phone call. If we still could not resolve it, then it all goes toward tithing per our instructions.

Once a phone call is made, the donors usually realize that either they need to make notes on the check for specific categories, or if that's not possible with their bill-pay system, then to expect it all to go toward tithing.

Mikerowaved wrote:For those without any categories noted we give them a quick phone call. If we still could not resolve it, then it all goes toward tithing per our instructions.

In this post and another post you made on this subject, you seem to be saying that there is some sort of policy that says any donation that doesn't specify distinct donation categories is to be credited entirely to Tithing. Is that a local policy your ward or stake has set, or is that according to some instructions from CHQ? If the latter, I don't recall hearing that and would appreciate it if you could let me know the source of the policy.

When I was a ward financial clerk, our policy was to make an assumption of the category if the donor had a well-established pattern. For example, Sister Jones pays $125 in Tithing around the first of each month; if we get a $125 donation from her on the 4th of May with no category specified, we assume it's Tithing. If Brother Smith donates $50 each Fast Sunday for Fast Offerings, and we get a $50 donation from him on a Fast Sunday with no category specified, we assume it's a Fast Offering. At Tithing Settlement, we would assume Tithing. Other than such clear cases, we had the bishop hold the donation until we could contact the donor. That was clearly just a local policy, but I never knew of any general policy.

Previous to creating this custom form, we'd seen one brother who always
recorded his donations on a neatly typed donation slip. We assume that he
still has some legacy electro-mechanical device -- typewriter.
We'd cheer to see his typed version.
Handwriting of some members often causes us to have to
stop and do some math in order to confirm certain digits.

Bill payer checks began to appear in about mid 2007.
We expect to see more.
Instead of buying a separate photocopier or scanner for Clerks' Office to duplicate
all these checks before sending to bank, we're making this appeal for
members to give us a retainable donation list.
Appeal was first made, last month, April 2008. ...No results yet to report.

When I have a member that does this, I give them the instructions to pay directly to the Church. This lets the member make the decisions about where the donation goes, and eliminates the process friction for the clerk and counselor.

If they make such donations, directly to CHQ, how would we ever receive for them, at end of year, a donation summary for settlement and tax statement for IRS? I know that a few do directly send to CHQ, but those are dealing in stock and land donations. Any thoughts. I'd really like to know.

When someone from another unit -- and their unit number is known to us -- gives donation during our meeting, and we record their unit number, will their donation be automatically transferred to their unit MLS or will it remain locally? We do have record of their current address, but they are only temporarily visiting. Will we need to send them a tax statement, too, although they have returned home?

H. Forth wrote:If they make such donations, directly to CHQ, how would we ever receive for them, at end of year, a donation summary for settlement and tax statement for IRS?

You don't. CHQ issues the tax statement for the portion that's sent to CHQ.

Aha! Then we should definitely encourage all users of Bill Payer Services
to donate and mail directly to CHQ.

I suppose that at end of year, with statement in hand, from CHQ, such members
would bring that to settlement. And CHQ would also send them a tax statement, too.

Wow! The time we will save will be increasing.

We'll check into finding an address for all those using Bill Payer Services
to re-direct their donations away from our Bishop.
I wonder if it's already listed within MLS?

H. Forth wrote:When someone from another unit -- and their unit number is known to us -- gives donation during our meeting, and we record their unit number, will their donation be automatically transferred to their unit MLS or will it remain locally? We do have record of their current address, but they are only temporarily visiting. Will be need to send them a tax statement, too, although they have returned home?

All financial records are kept at the unit where the donation is received. So if someone lives in two different wards during a year, and also makes a donation directly to Church Headquarters, they will need three separate tax statements, each issued by the unit where the donation was received.

At the end of the year, If you have a valid address for a donor who has subsequently moved out of your ward, or was never a member of your ward, you should send them a year-end tax statement. If they have not provided you an address, then it is their responsibility to contact you and request the year-end tax statement.

H. Forth wrote:Aha! Then we should definitely encourage all users of Bill Payer Services
to donate and mail directly to CHQ.

Although it will save you as a clerk some time if people send donations to CHQ, there are a couple of things to be aware of that make CHQ Bill Pay donations undesirable for some donations.:

• Fast offerings sent to the Church are not credited to the local ward and stake. Yes, it is true that all fast offering donations are swept to the Church and that all fast offering checks are automatically reimbursed by the Church, but it is also true that stake presidents receive an accounting of each ward's surplus or deficit in donations vs. expenses in the Fast Offering category.
• There is no way to make ward missionary contributions if you send the funds to the Church. Yet the equalized missionary payment for missionaries serving from the ward will still come directily from the ward account.
• Similarly, there is no way to give funds for any Other subcategories via Bill Pay that will go to the ward. All donations in the Other category sent to CHQ via Bill Pay are credited to the Church Humanitarian Fund.

H. Forth wrote: I suppose that at end of year, with statement in hand, from CHQ, such members
would bring that to settlement. And CHQ would also send them a tax statement, too.

CHQ will send a YTD statement in December, and also a tax statement in January, but it is not required that a member bring any statements from other units (including CHQ) to tithing settlement. Tithing settlement is a time for members to declare their tithing status to the bishop, not to make a full accounting of what donations were made to any units during the year.

H. Forth wrote: We'll check into finding an address for all those using Bill Payer Services
to re-direct their donations away from our Bishop. I wonder if it's already listed within MLS?

That address is not in MLS, but if you look at this post and perhaps the entire thread, you will see the information you need.

Alan_Brown wrote:Tithing settlement is a time for members to declare their tithing status to the bishop, not to make a full accounting of what donations were made to any units during the year.

Correct. The statement offered is more along the lines of "are we in sync?" It's a time to find out if all donations have been credited properly.

We were just talking about this topic yesterday. We feel that checks we receive from bill paying services are a real hassle. If we are lucky the correct donation categories are listed on the memo line. If we are unlucky we have to call the member. Both ways we have to fill out the donation slip. Even if we have the donation category information, we may still not know enough detail like- I s this donation under the name of the husband and wife? If ward miss. is a category, for which missionary is the donation? (Same question if the other category is used.) We feel it is not asking too much for the members to present with their donation check a fully filled out donation slip. That way we don't guess on any information and they get a carbon copy of what they filled out. This may mean that the check comes to the member's home, they fill out a regular donation slip, and they mail it to the bishop or hand it to a member of the bishopric on Sunday. Give me your opinion. Is this asking too much of the members? The counselor and clerk are spending a couple of hours to process donation and anything to make this process go quickly and more efficiently would sure be appreciated.

stott wrote:We were just talking about this topic yesterday. We feel that checks we receive from bill paying services are a real hassle. If we are lucky the correct donation categories are listed on the memo line. If we are unlucky we have to call the member. Both ways we have to fill out the donation slip. Even if we have the donation category information, we may still not know enough detail like- I s this donation under the name of the husband and wife? If ward miss. is a category, for which missionary is the donation? (Same question if the other category is used.) We feel it is not asking too much for the members to present with their donation check a fully filled out donation slip. That way we don't guess on any information and they get a carbon copy of what they filled out. This may mean that the check comes to the member's home, they fill out a regular donation slip, and they mail it to the bishop or hand it to a member of the bishopric on Sunday. Give me your opinion. Is this asking too much of the members? The counselor and clerk are spending a couple of hours to process donation and anything to make this process go quickly and more efficiently would sure be appreciated.

You raise some valid issues, however things like ambiguity has always been a concern when processing a batch whether the donation is made through a bill-pay service or handed to the Bishop in person. None of want to "guess" as to the donor's wishes, but sometimes we are forced to do the best we can with what information we are given. So far in our Ward, members have been good at using the "memo" area of the check to specify their donation categories. If we have to make a call, we find the member is usually real good from that point on to include a detailed memo.

Yes, filling out a donation slip is a bit of a hassle and I wish there was an alternative method, but I don't see it as a that big of an issue. I am a bit surprised at how long it takes you to process a batch. We have a larger than average Ward and it rarely takes us more than an hour from start to finish.

stott wrote:We were just talking about this topic yesterday. We feel that checks we receive from bill paying services are a real hassle.

My teenage son has a checking account that does not allow the writing of checks. All payments are by electronic bill pay or cash withdrawal from an ATM machine.

Because our clerks have made it clear that they feel it is a real hassle, my son has three options.

1. Hassle them with bill pay.

2. Get cash from the ATM machine to pay his tithing.

3. Transfer his tithing money to his father's account and have his father write a check to the Ward.

We do not wish to hassle the clerks. So we do not do option one. (I would do that myself, if they were willing. I write only one check a month -- to the ward.)

Option 2 causes the expense of time and gasoline, both of which are very precious to all of us.

Option 3 causes the clerks concern, because they think the father may be able to get an extra big deduction at (US) income tax time. They do not understand that I cannot. I have to have the receipt or I cannot claim the deduction, all other things being equal. Nevertheless, they are concerned.

They also think that, because I write the check, the contribution must be in my name. It does not, of course.

We use Option 3. When the concerns become vocal, we use Option 1 for a month, and then switch back to Option 3.

We have made it clear to our leaders that those are our options, and that if they have other suggestions, we would be willing to follow them.

I had not considered having the bill pay check sent to our home. We might do that until there is a change in leadership or clerks.

The is an old thread that contains EFT / Direct Deposit information that you could use as option 4. You would need to keep track of your donations separately, and resolve at tithing settlement time. I would probably run that by your bishop first just to make sure he understood the process.

It frustrates me that option 3 causes you grief. I don't like the argument that you might be dishonest as a valid reason to not allow you to pay that way. I have spent a few tithing settlements getting records moved between my father and I because of our similar names.

So in short, look up option 4 above, and you have my sympathy. Your only other options are to keep pushing on your leadership.

lajackson wrote:3. Transfer his tithing money to his father's account and have his father write a check to the Ward.

[...]

Option 3 causes the clerks concern, because they think the father may be able to get an extra big deduction at (US) income tax time. They do not understand that I cannot. I have to have the receipt or I cannot claim the deduction, all other things being equal. Nevertheless, they are concerned.

I believe in the US, that is correct - you need that receipt. Still, I'd have the concern that something may not hold up under a full audit - since there's no record of transferring money to the church, only transferring money to the father. The paper trail is messy.

If I was the clerk, I'd probably call CHQ to make sure that's OK to do. I wouldn't want to engage in any practices that could throw doubt on the chruch's handing of funds.

There are a couple of other options:

4) Do a EFT to CHQ. There are some downsides to that since the numbers don't go though the local office, but at least for tithing that would work. It may be a partial solution.

5) Get a conventional checking account. He won't always be able to pay by cash, debit card or EFT.

lajackson wrote:My teenage son has a checking account that does not allow the writing of checks. All payments are by electronic bill pay or cash withdrawal from an ATM machine.

Because our clerks have made it clear that they feel it is a real hassle...

Ah, how I miss those halcyon days when clerks didn't have to hassle with filling out a donation slip in an air conditioned office. it was so much easier when clerks only had to take in donations of eggs, livestock, fresh vegetables, and bushels of grain. Those were the days!

The one part of this conversation that has not been addressed is what the actual purpose of the donation is for, on the spiritual side.
The actual Giving of the funds is part of the process of sacrifice (in my opinion) which is lost if the member sets up an autopay deduction and just never hassles with it except for once a year at Tithing Settlement.
Also where are the YM/Aronic Priesthood Fast Offering Collections in this ?
Anyway just wondering, not trying to attack or flame.

al7253 wrote:The one part of this conversation that has not been addressed is what the actual purpose of the donation is for, on the spiritual side.
The actual Giving of the funds is part of the process of sacrifice (in my opinion) which is lost if the member sets up an autopay deduction and just never hassles with it except for once a year at Tithing Settlement.
Also where are the YM/Aronic Priesthood Fast Offering Collections in this ?
Anyway just wondering, not trying to attack or flame.

That discussion exists in part in the EFT thread mentioned above. Many share your opinion, but that discussion falls into a gray area that this forum is not really purposed for.

Thanks
The Earl

The Earl wrote:That discussion exists in part in the EFT thread mentioned above. Many share your opinion, but that discussion falls into a gray area that this forum is not really purposed for.

Thanks
The Earl

Yes, as stated in the EFT thread, this forum is not set up to discuss "the spiritual side", only the technical side. The spiritual side is a personal matter between you, the Lord, and your local leaders.

Thanks.

The Earl wrote:... and you have my sympathy. Your only other options are to keep pushing on your leadership.

Oh, thank you for your thoughtfulness, but I really am fine with it all. The contributions get paid. There is not too much fussing.

And I would never push on my leadership. Perhaps suggest and teach and train and encourage, but not push. They have enough problems to worry about when I walk in the room. [grin]

And as a point of clarification, the Aaronic Priesthood is suppose to ONLY receive Fast Offerings, not Tithing. Yes it happens, but in the perfect world they are not to deal with tithing.

lajackson wrote:I had not considered having the bill pay check sent to our home. We might do that until there is a change in leadership or clerks.

That would have been my option #1. I don't see how having the bill pay sent to your son's home address, having your son fill out a donation slip, and then handing it to the bishop is a hassle for anyone (except maybe your son). It is certainly less messy than transferring money between disparate accounts.

The payee would be something as simple as:

Pay to the order of:
<My Ward/Branch>
C/O <Me>
<My delivery address>
<City, ST ZIP>

If getting it to the bishop is a hassle, then he could grab a stack of donation envelopes and slips for use at home, and then pay for postage for the mail carrier to give it to the bishop. We have several members that do this for various reasons.

PS: My current unit is the first unit I have been in that pre-stuffs the donation envelopes with the donation slips. Initially I though that was a lot of extra work, but I am sold on it now. This also gives the bishop an extra "task" he can assign out every now and then when someone is seeking assistance.

jbh001 wrote:I don't see how having the bill pay sent to your son's home address, having your son fill out a donation slip, and then handing it to the bishop is a hassle for anyone (except maybe your son).

It delays the process for the few days it takes to get the check. Otherwise, it is just the same as when I write a check out of my checkbook.

I was actually surprised that there were "checking" accounts where you could not write checks. Well, actually you can, but for a very stiff fee.

It would be nice if there were a way that donations could be paid electronically and the local unit get credit for things such as fast offering and ward missionary. I wonder, though, how many would actually be using it.

I believe that electronic payments to CHQ were established for those who were out of the country (deployed military, for example) so that they could continue to contribute without having to mail a check from the far reaches of the world.

The current system fits that purpose the way it is designed now.

lajackson wrote:It delays the process for the few days it takes to get the check. Otherwise, it is just the same as when I write a check out of my checkbook.

But it doesn't delay the process any more by sending it to your address than the bishop's address, unless your ward regularly processes donations more than once a week and on a day other than Sunday. The bishop is still going to hang on to the check until Sunday. What is the difference between the Bishop holding it until Sunday and your son holding it until Sunday? The post office takes the same amount of time to deliver it to either address, and someone has to hold it until donations are processed. I still don't see the "inconvenience."

I apologize in advance for being clueless here.

jbh001 wrote:But it doesn't delay the process any more by sending it to your address than the bishop's address, ...

Remember, we were not sending the check to the bishop's address. The delay I was referring to, which does not really matter at all, is the delay in getting the check. My son was transferring the money to me electronically, and I was writing the check the same day. All of this happened on Thursday or Friday. Tithing was paid on Sunday.

With the new plan, he requests a check from the bank on Thursday or Friday, which takes four to five days to arrive, and his tithing is paid on Sunday, a week later. That extra week in getting the tithing paid is the delay to which I was referring.

I have assured him that getting the tithing paid is what matters, not how long it takes to get it paid.

This is an answer to the question about putting the entire amount into "Tithing." You do this only if you receive money in an envelope with no slip, so that you do not know who donated the money and for what categories it was intended. Then you make out a tithing slip, write "Unknown" as the donor and put the entire amount in "Tithing." This situation should be rare.

lajackson wrote:My teenage son has a checking account that does not allow the writing of checks. All payments are by electronic bill pay or cash withdrawal from an ATM machine.
Because our clerks have made it clear that they feel it is a real hassle, my son has three options.
1. Hassle them with bill pay....

lajackson wrote:Remember, we were not sending the check to the bishop's address

Again forgive me in advance for being dense, but when you "hassled" the clerks in the past under option 1, where were you instructing the Bill Pay to be mailed?

lajackson wrote:With the new plan, he requests a check from the bank on Thursday or Friday, which takes four to five days to arrive, and his tithing is paid on Sunday, a week later. That extra week in getting the tithing paid is the delay to which I was referring.

Again, this postal delivery delay is the same regardless of where you instruct the Bill Pay to be mailed. So under you option 1 above, tithing was still not being paid that Sunday, but the following Sunday, it's just that the delay wasn't obvious to your son because the bishop (or whomever your son instructed the Bill Pay to mail it to) was holding the check until Sunday instead of your son.

If I understand correctly, when the Bill Pay was mailing the check to the bishop (or whomever), the clerks felt "hassled" because they had to then process a donation without a donation slip. When the Bill Pay mails the check to your son instead, he feels hassled to have to hold on to the check a few extra days because the whole Bill Pay process is now blatantly obvious instead of being hidden.

We are making way too much out of this. What you are saying about the delay is correct, but you have missed what we are actually doing.

1. We did not hassle the clerks. That was an option that we never exercised because they said they did not want to do it. I was merely pointing out that that was one of our options.

2. Under our current method of operation, there is no delay because bill pay is not being used to process the donation. The donation is electronically transfered from his account to mine (no delay). I immediately prepare a check (no delay or mailing time) for him to put in his deposit envelope. He gives it to the bishopric on Sunday.

3. Using bill pay to send the check to either the bishop or to himself will result in additional time. I already mentioned that this is not an issue of concern. We had not considered sending the check to himself rather than the bishop.

4. It would still be better if there were a way to truly do this electronically in a manner that would give the local unit credit for fast offering and ward missionary fund contributions. But that is not something we see happening in the near future.

lajackson wrote:It would still be better if there were a way to truly do this electronically in a manner that would give the local unit credit for fast offering and ward missionary fund contributions. But that is not something we see happening in the near future.

Depending on how popular those "no check" accounts become, it might be sooner then later.

One of the things that is being missed here -- Clerks are called to "serve" -- having served for over 30 years in the Clerk's office, I have seen a wide variety of changes. So it takes a few seconds to write out a donor slip -- nothing at all what it used to be.

On an earlier post, if it takes 2 hours for the clerk and counselor to count the weekly donations, you must have a really HUGE Ward. Two brethren that are computer literate should be able to easily complete the deposit within 30 - 45 minutes.

I undertand the Spirit of paying tithing & fast offerings. But at the end of the month, the ONLY check I write is to the Church. Bottom line, I want to pay via EFT. No where is this thread has the process of doing so been explained...I would appreciate it. As soon as I learn the process, I can assure you I will be paying my tithing, etc that way. It does not take away from the fact that I obediently pay my tithing. How it is received & whether or not I feel out a donation slip is really irrelavent. The import thing is I pay my church offerings. Years ago, they were paid in eggs, grain & with other assorted items. I'm sure they did not require a member to complete a tithing form for his 6 dozen of eggs or 10 chickens. I think this is an area that the Church is behind in & it's a matter of semantics. How easy to eliminate another lenghty effort of tallying donation every Sunday after church. That time could be spent with one's family. With gas prices, it may even permit a family to "ride" to & from church together & save on gas!!!

spitfire wrote:I undertand the Spirit of paying tithing & fast offerings. But at the end of the month, the ONLY check I write is to the Church. Bottom line, I want to pay via EFT. No where is this thread has the process of doing so been explained...I would appreciate it.

If you do not wish to have your Bill Pay service cut a check to mail or give to the bishop, you can pay directly by EFT to Church Headquarters. There is a form to complete and send to SL before you begin, and specific instructions and account numbers to use.

You will need to create a separate payment for each category to which you wish to contribute. Keep in mind that you cannot contribute to the Ward Missionary Fund and your contributions to the Fast Offering Fund will not be credited to the ward, but will go directly to the General Fast Offering Fund.

I have seen the forms and instructions if you are interested. (Click on my name and send a private e-mail and I will send them to you.) I still write my only check once a month to the ward and give it to the counselor in the bishopric each month because I can write one check for all of my contributions and we have a missionary serving from our family, so we need to contribute to the Ward Mission Fund. At this point, that cannot be done truly electronically.

I send my tithing electronically and automatically to SLC. There are other options for donations distributed by HQ on the form, too. Donations for the ward (fast offering, our missionaries) and payments for girls camp & scout camp (whether for my family or someone else's) must still be made to the ward.

Here are the forms. Just fill out the very brief form and fax it. After a few days you'll be notified that you are set up for this. I look forward to the ward donations being added to this in the future, but do not kinow if they're working on that.

*Attachments removed*

scion wrote:I send my tithing electronically and automatically to SLC. There are other options for donations distributed by HQ on the form, too. Donations for the ward (fast offering, our missionaries) and payments for girls camp & scout camp (whether for my family or someone else's) must still be made to the ward.

Here are the forms. Just fill out the very brief form and fax it. After a few days you'll be notified that you are set up for this. I look forward to the ward donations being added to this in the future, but do not kinow if they're working on that.

Thanks for posting the forms, but unfortunately these are old forms that have been circulating, but are now out of date. Please do not use them.

The Church Donations department reached out to those of us who administer the LDSClerks wiki and provided updated instructions and forms.

The updated instructions and forms are located at http://ldsclerks.org/index.php?title=El ... _Donations. I don't know why they are not easily available on lds.org, but at least there is a place they can be obtained. If you follow the See Also links from that page, you can also find instructions for sending donations directly to the Church by check or by wire.

Thanx for the info....have printed the form & will send it in today.....

Sherry

H. Forth wrote:Aha! Then we should definitely encourage all users of Bill Payer Services
to donate and mail directly to CHQ.

I suppose that at end of year, with statement in hand, from CHQ, such members
would bring that to settlement. And CHQ would also send them a tax statement, too.

Wow! The time we will save will be increasing.

We'll check into finding an address for all those using Bill Payer Services
to re-direct their donations away from our Bishop.
I wonder if it's already listed within MLS?

Brother, If they want it sent to the ward, they need to make sure it is a physical check that is being sent and not an electronic transfer. If they are going to pay this way, they need to provide you with a donation receipt around the time that they are making the requested payment.
The only issue with paying through church headquarters is they can't designate ward missionary or fast offerings to be credited to a specific ward. It all goes to the general funds. So if they want the ward to have credit for the fast offerings or ward missionary (particularly if they are paying monthly for their missionary) then they need to have it sent to the ward instead.

First, thank you to all for answering my question re: EFT & the correct form. I've filled it out & am sending it tomorrow.

Because I have mentioned this to some of my friends, I advised the Bishopric in our Correlation Mtg today that I was the "source" in the event they "heard" about this from members & I was NOT announcing it (I'm the RS Prez)!!

Anyway, one of the concerns was the Bishop's access to a member's tithing record as it relates to worthiness & temple recommend interviews.

Now as a sister, my thought would be if the question was asked about tithing & they lied, etc, then it would be between the individual & the Lord...but if a Bishop does want to know if a member is paying tithing, could he easily access this info from the department that handles EFT or would he/could he get a report (quarterly or otherwise)??

Thanx in advance....

First, thank you to those that provided the process & form for EFT...it's completed & being sent tomorrow!!!

A ? came up in correlation today, if a Bishop wants to know about a member's tithing history who is paying via EFT, can they request a report or will they receive a report, quarterly or otherwise? (I'm the RS Prez & mentioned that I had discussed this with some "friends" so they would know the "source" if members asked, etc. I also referred the Bishopric to this site).

This come up when I mentioned this process today & I guess there is some concern about tithing history as it relates to a temple recommend interview....as a sister, I didn't know that the Bishop(ric) reviewed tithing history. I just thought you went in & declared yourself at Tithing Settlement & the Bishop trusted your honesty....

spitfire wrote:... one of the concerns was the Bishop's access to a member's tithing record as it relates to worthiness & temple recommend interviews.

Now as a sister, my thought would be if the question was asked about tithing & they lied, etc, then it would be between the individual & the Lord...but if a Bishop does want to know if a member is paying tithing, could he easily access this info from the department that handles EFT or would he/could he get a report (quarterly or otherwise)??

The simple answer is no. The bishop has absolutely no access to that information, and that is by policy of the Church Donations department.

In any case, it is not the bishop's role to analyze a member's income and tithing payments to make a judgment as to whether the member paid precisely 10%.

spitfire wrote:Anyway, one of the concerns was the Bishop's access to a member's tithing record as it relates to worthiness & temple recommend interviews.

The bishop will have no access to this information. In an interview, he will ask if you are a full tithe payer. You will answer yes. That is it.

If he hesitates, or mentions that he has noticed that the ward has no record of you paying tithing, simply say that you pay directly to Salt Lake by EFT, and that you are a full tithe payer.

This is no different than the member I had in one of my wards who was very rich (a very relative term, of course), had a temple recommend, yet seemed to never have paid any tithing. It turned out he paid tithing in kind using stock each year.

But at the ward, there was no record at all, and SL would not have sent me anything, even if I had asked. I didn't.

lajackson wrote:It turned out he paid tithing in kind using stock each year.

I understand there are advantages to doing that.

lajackson wrote:
This is no different than the member I had in one of my wards who was very rich (a very relative term, of course), had a temple recommend, yet seemed to never have paid any tithing. It turned out he paid tithing in kind using stock each year.

Just a comment:
I was the clerk for an English stake overseas, and this was often the case with members there. I always instructed the ward financial clerks to make comments on the Tithing Declaration Report for any situation that looked "funny." For situations where donors declared FT but there was no donation, for example, I suggested they add a comment such as "paid tithing directly to Church HQ," "Paid in stock to Church HQ," "Paid in previous ward," etc. (whatever was the individual situation).

Alan_Brown wrote:In any case, it is not the bishop's role to analyze a member's income and tithing payments to make a judgment as to whether the member paid precisely 10%.

I can't say anything "officially," but a former bishop of mine said that it would be wrong for a bishop to question a member's tithing declaration. He can only instruct on the meaning of "full tithe" is as what is defined in the handbook (i.e. "one tenth of all their interest annually, which is understood to mean income"). To some degree, it's up to the member to interpret the meaning of "income." In other words, it would be incorrect for the bishop to say that a full-tithe payer must pay at least 10% of their "gross" income.

In answer to where the amounts go:

1. If you have a name and amount but not categories, you are supposed to contact the donor to find out which categories the amounts go to and complete a tithing slip for those amounts.

2. If you have amounts in categories but no name, complete a tithing slip with the name "Unknown" at the top and record and deposit as usual.

3. If you have an amount, no categories, and no name, complete a tithing slip with the name "Unknown" at the top. Place the entire amount in Tithing. Record and deposit as usual.

Alan_Brown wrote:The simple answer is no. The bishop has absolutely no access to that information, and that is by policy of the Church Donations department.

In any case, it is not the bishop's role to analyze a member's income and tithing payments to make a judgment as to whether the member paid precisely 10%.

I appreciate your comments re: Bishop access to tithing records....it makes perfect sense to me that a members' tithing payments should not have any correlation to their temple recommend interview. That interview is sacred & should be handled as such, it is essentially an interview with the Lord; there should be no checking on tithing, attendance or otherwise. I was quite taken aback when this comment was made by the individual in the meeting. I plan to go back to the Bishop (when we meet privately) & pass on this info. My Bishop is "technically" challenged, he does not even like email. But that's ok, bottom line is that he performs his responsibilities. Having a former Bishopric member make that comment can mis-lead a new Bishop....

Thanx again!

BTW, submitted my EFT form via email, was processed quickly & will be making my 1st payment tomorrow (payday!!)

spitfire wrote:I appreciate your comments re: Bishop access to tithing records....it makes perfect sense to me that a members' tithing payments should not have any correlation to their temple recommend interview. That interview is sacred & should be handled as such, it is essentially an interview with the Lord; there should be no checking on tithing, attendance or otherwise. I was quite taken aback when this comment was made by the individual in the meeting. I plan to go back to the Bishop (when we meet privately) & pass on this info. My Bishop is "technically" challenged, he does not even like email. But that's ok, bottom line is that he performs his responsibilities. Having a former Bishopric member make that comment can mis-lead a new Bishop....

Just as a reminder, when contemplating matters like this that have to do with doctrine and Church policy, it is best to treat what the Church Handbook of Instructions says as the authority (along with the guidance and inspiration of the Spirit).

Plus, it could only help to have sections of the Handbook available to show the Bishop when you meet with him privately to discuss the matter.

Maybe I missed this, but when I looked at the form I would send to CHQ, it states any other offerings would go into a general fund, rather than credited back to the Ward. We have some specific needs at the local ward level for these fast offerings so if there is no way to donate electronically such that the funds end up in my ward, none of this does me any good (as I'd now need to submit tithing electronically and also submit fast offerings in the traditional way). Did I miss something?
-Mike

mikengray wrote:Maybe I missed this, but when I looked at the form I would send to CHQ, it states any other offerings would go into a general fund, rather than credited back to the Ward. We have some specific needs at the local ward level for these fast offerings so if there is no way to donate electronically such that the funds end up in my ward, none of this does me any good (as I'd now need to submit tithing electronically and also submit fast offerings in the traditional way). Did I miss something?
-Mike

No, you're correct. Any donations or payments that need to be credited at the local level (fast offerings, ward missionary, "Other" account payments such as for an annual camp) must be made to the ward. There is currently no way for donations made to the Church by EFT to be credited to those local accounts.

But if you would like, there is no problem with contributing tithing to the Church via EFT, and other donations to the ward. Some people might find that helpful, while others would think that is just an extra complication.

You are correct in donations that go direct to CHQ can not be earmarked for local Ward Missionary.

I think some members have been setting things up with their bank that causes a check to be mailed to the Bishop. The problem is indicating what the funds are to be used for since there is no donation slip. I think that was all discussed in the thread previously referenced. You might want to talk with your ward financial clerk.

RussellHltn wrote:You are correct in donations that go direct to CHQ can not be earmarked for local Ward Missionary.

Are you certain that this is the case or that it has always been the case?
My memory may be off, but I recall probably 5 or 6 years ago that our CUFS had an extra donation to WM that baffled me as to where it came from. After calling CHQ, I was informed that this came from a member of our ward who donated funds directly to CHQ, and this was his WM contribution. There may have also been a letter sent to the bishop explaining this.

Greggo wrote:Are you certain that this is the case or that it has always been the case?
My memory may be off, but I recall probably 5 or 6 years ago that our CUFS had an extra donation to WM that baffled me as to where it came from. After calling CHQ, I was informed that this came from a member of our ward who donated funds directly to CHQ, and this was his WM contribution. There may have also been a letter sent to the bishop explaining this.

I am certain that this is the case for donations made by EFT directly to the Church. The article I referenced contains instructions sent directly by the Church Donations Department, and it says: "Bill Payment Service Donations cannot be used to send funds to a ward for fast offerings or missionary support."

However, I have experience where part or all of a Donation in Kind was directed to the Ward Missionary fund. In this case, the credit will show up on the Church Unit Financial Statement. I would guess that you saw a similar situation.

Greggo wrote:I recall probably 5 or 6 years ago that our CUFS had an extra donation to WM that baffled me as to where it came from. After calling CHQ, I was informed that this came from a member of our ward who donated funds directly to CHQ, and this was his WM contribution. There may have also been a letter sent to the bishop explaining this.

This used to happen fairly frequently as members paid contributions in kind. As the number of donations directly to CHQ has increased, this is becoming quite rare.

However, the EFT process does not allow for an electronic contribution to be credited back to the ward.

Alan_Brown wrote:Thanks for posting the forms, but unfortunately these are old forms that have been circulating, but are now out of date. Please do not use them.

The Church Donations department reached out to those of us who administer the LDSClerks wiki and provided updated instructions and forms.

The updated instructions and forms are located at http://ldsclerks.org/index.php?title=El ... _Donations. I don't know why they are not easily available on lds.org, but at least there is a place they can be obtained. If you follow the See Also links from that page, you can also find instructions for sending donations directly to the Church by check or by wire.

Is there any new place for the docs? The link given no longer contains any content.

rpyne wrote:Is there any new place for the docs? The link given no longer contains any content.

No, the forms have been removed at the request of the Donations Department. Those who have a specific need (aside from simple convenience) for making electronic donations should contact the Donations Department directly.

I just stumbled across this old thread. I thought I should mention that as of a year or two ago the annual donation tax receipt from church headquarters started to include any donations made to the local unit as well. Therefore you'd only need one tax receipt for all contributions.

I think last year I spoke with someone in donations who mentioned that they're working on some newer donation technology that would allow electronic donations to be made to local ward accounts (such as fast offerings and ward mission). I'm not sure what it is or when it might show up.

mevans wrote:I just stumbled across this old thread. I thought I should mention that as of a year or two ago the annual donation tax receipt from church headquarters started to include any donations made to the local unit as well. Therefore you'd only need one tax receipt for all contributions.

That's interesting, but doesn't apply to very many people, since very few people should be making such donations to CHQ at this point.

mevans wrote:I think last year I spoke with someone in donations who mentioned that they're working on some newer donation technology that would allow electronic donations to be made to local ward accounts (such as fast offerings and ward mission). I'm not sure what it is or when it might show up.

Many people would welcome the time when the ability to make electronic payments is broadly available. Until then, we all have to be patient....

I noticed in the announcement letter for the new donation slips that this was in one of the bullet points,

"The “Full address” field has been replaced by the “Membership record number” field. For members donating in their own ward or branch, this number is optional. However, it is needed when making a donation in another unit (such as a grandparent donating for a grandchild’s mission) and when making online donations, where available. It also allows all donations for a member to be summarized onto one year-end statement regardless of where the donations were made."

I hope some of these behind-the-scenes improvements is helping to get us there.

aebrown wrote:That's interesting, but doesn't apply to very many people, since very few people should be making such donations to CHQ at this point.

In reading through this thread I saw something where it looked like the donations department took down the instructions on how to do this. When I see your comment, I wonder what's up. They don't want people to pay directly to CHQ through bill pay anymore? I have an LDS Accountant do my taxes and he sent me the electronic donation info several years ago. I love it, and have passed the info on to others (I don't know if they signed up). The great thing is that when it's electronic, my end-of-year statements are correct...no human error (unless my donations to the local unit categories get messed up).

I agree that very few people are aware of it. I was going to be telling a few more people about how to set it up. This is discouraged by the church now?

mevans wrote:In reading through this thread I saw something where it looked like the donations department took down the instructions on how to do this. When I see your comment, I wonder what's up. They don't want people to pay directly to CHQ through bill pay anymore? I have an LDS Accountant do my taxes and he sent me the electronic donation info several years ago. I love it, and have passed the info on to others (I don't know if they signed up). The great thing is that when it's electronic, my end-of-year statements are correct...no human error (unless my donations to the local unit categories get messed up).

I agree that very few people are aware of it. I was going to be telling a few more people about how to set it up. This is discouraged by the church now?

It has been discouraged by the Church for several years. Because of my role initially with the LDSClerks wiki and then with the LDSTech wiki, I was contacted by a manager in the Donations Department and specifically asked to remove all the forms from the wiki, as well as any instructions.

If it were encouraged by the Church, don't you think there would be a straightforward way to get the forms and instructions? But there is not. That alone should be a big clue. I also have the benefit of direct communication that makes it clear that the current system the Church uses requires so much manual processing that the Donations Department could not possibly handle the load if people freely signed up for their own convenience. Thus the counsel is that this service should only be used by those who can't reasonably pay other ways (one example would be military personnel stationed overseas).

aebrown wrote:(one example would be military personnel stationed overseas).

I don't think just overseas, but in a area such as a battle zone where the church simply isn't sufficiently organized to deal with donations.

It hadn't crossed my mind that there would be manual processing involved in this other than the initial enrollment (which was clearly a manual step). From a user perspective, after the initial enrollment, it all appears automated to me. I use bill pay for so many things and for many recipients it's all automated. Many people are unaware of the technology resources the church has provided and I assumed this was just another one that people were unaware of. Given the insights you've provided, I'll stop telling people about this one.