Problem modifying a repeating event.

I tried searching for other situations like this, but finding Google seems to be filtered.

One of our wards set up a repeating event "Sacrament Meeting". One Sunday in November is our Stake Conference, so I went to try and delete that Sacrament Meeting. But I can't.

That was is my ward, but I have no edit rights to their calendar. I am listed as the "other" (non-primary) building scheduler. When I try to delete it, I end up with a window with no title and no text. I think it's probably trying to ask me exactly what to delete (this event, future events, whole series, etc).

I know I've been able to delete that event in the past, but with the current calendar version, I cannot.

Edit: I made myself the primary building scheduler. No change.

One thing I noticed - the "delete event" option is grayed out when I right click that event. The system seems to think I can't delete it. I also notice that I only get that window (by clicking on the event and clicking delete) if I've accessed another event that I do have delete rights to. But only once. So I suspect multiple bugs: The first - that it won't let the building scheduler control their building. Second, that there is a empty window sometimes in situations where there should be no action.

Am I the only one seeing this issue?

Edit: Looking at it some more, this doesn't appear to be a "repeating" issue. When right clicking any activity that is on a calendar I do not have editing right to, the "delete" function is grayed out. Yet I can create/delete reservations which should conform that I'm a building scheduler for that location.

The problem is Building Schedulers don't have delete rights to events on calendars they are not editors/administrators of, they can only update the details for any event scheduled in their location

Gary_Miller wrote:The problem is Building Schedulers don't have delete rights to events on calendars they are not editors/administrators of, they can only update the details for any event scheduled in their location

This is not correct. Building schedulers can, or should be able to, edit and delete events on any calendar scheduled to use a location or rooms/equipment at a location for which they are assigned as a building scheduler. Building schedulers are not administrators, nor are they editors of any calendar. The rights a building scheduler has does not involve any of the administrator rights and only a subset of editor rights. Those editor rights apply only to events that have been created and utilize the location and rooms/equipment of the location for which they are a building scheduler.

Any change that does not allow building scheduler to delete events using a location and rooms/equipment at a location for which they are a building scheduler is a bug. The capability to delete events is a basic function of a building scheduler rights.

The help file does indeed say "Update the details for any event scheduled in their location", but it's unclear just what that means. It seems silly if they can only update the text but have to beg the calendar editors to move or delete events when there is a conflict.

With some additional playing I've discovered:

- The options that appear are influenced by if I've subscribed to the calendar or not. For example, if I right click on a even scheduled on a public stake-level calendar (and I'm a default stake admin) all the options are grayed out until I subscribe to that calendar.

- Attempting to delete a repeating event on a ward calendar (where I have no right) from the small pop-up box either ends up with no response or a new empty pop-up box.

- If I go to the detail (large) screen for that same event, I am able to delete it and I get the expected dialog when you go to modify a repeating event.

I'm not 100% sure of what's supposed to happen, but the UI is inconsistent.

jdlessley wrote:This is not correct. Building schedulers can, or should be able to, edit and delete events on any calendar scheduled to use a location or rooms/equipment at a location for which they are assigned as a building scheduler.

In the past yes but the principles of the new calendar is for building schedulers only to be able to add reservations. At least that's how I understand it when I read the information on how to work the calendar under the help section. A building scheduler being able to to anymore than that defeats the purpose of having editors and administrators. The building scheduler is no longer king of the building. That's why its more important to book events instead of reservations.

jdlessley wrote:Building schedulers are not administrators, nor are they editors of any calendar.

Correct and they should not have the right unless they are a member of the leadership in the organization responsible for that calendar.

jdlessley wrote:The rights a building scheduler has does not involve any of the administrator rights and only a subset of editor rights. Those editor rights apply only to events that have been created and utilize the location and rooms/equipment of the location for which they are a building scheduler.

Correct and according to the help section they only have rights to update the detail (edit), and I don't understand why they have that right.

jdlessley wrote:Any change that does not allow building scheduler to delete events using a location and rooms/equipment at a location for which they are a building scheduler is a bug. The capability to delete events is a basic function of a building scheduler rights.

Not according to the documentation. And why should they be able to delete an event in which they did not set up. There is no possible reason for them to be able to do this. If there is a conflict then it should be worked out among the units involved and there should never be a conflict because someone had to book the event first so the other should find a different date, time or location. The only time I could see justifying a change would be because of a funeral.

The way events are booked for a building has changed. To me it makes allot of sense. The problems I see arising is because building schedulers what to continue doing things the same old way, and the same old way does not work.

I have refrained from saying this because I think it should have been obvious. However, it seems to not be so obvious for some. So here goes. ITS TIME FOR EVERYONE TO GO AND READ THE HELP SECTION IN THE CALENDAR. Pay particular attention to the section on roles.

RussellHltn wrote:The help file does indeed say "Update the details for any event scheduled in their location", but it's unclear just what that means.

I don't think is unclear. Update means to "to bring up to date" in other words "edit".

RussellHltn wrote:It seems silly if they can only update the text

I agree they should not have the right at all to to update/edit. There is no reason for someone who knows nothing about an event to be able to change the information about the event.

RussellHltn wrote:but have to beg the calendar editors to move or delete events when there is a conflict.

I covered how I saw this in my post above.

Gary_Miller wrote:I don't think is unclear. Update means to "to bring up to date" in other words "edit".

What's unclear is just what "details" means. IOW, what can the Building Scheduler edit? It doesn't make sense to me that they can change the text but not the timing, resources, or other things that do pertain to being the building scheduler (or coordinator).

But it is clear from the documentation that the Building Scheduler is supposed to be able to make changes.

RussellHltn wrote:What's unclear is just what "details" means. IOW, what can the Building Scheduler edit? It doesn't make sense to me that they can change the text but not the timing, resources, or other things that do pertain to being the building scheduler (or coordinator).

But it is clear from the documentation that the Building Scheduler is supposed to be able to make changes.

I would guess the "details" would be the same things that an administrator can edit. Calendar, title, description, date, time, location, resources, setup time, and clean up time. I think that covered all the areas. However, since I'm not a scheduler I can not verify this. Maybe someone else can.

Of course as I previously stated I don't think the Building Scheduler should be able to edit or delete any event. Only calendar editors or administrators should have edit functions.

Gary_Miller wrote:Of course as I previously stated I don't think the Building Scheduler should be able to edit or delete any event. Only calendar editors or administrators should have edit functions.

Given the fact that the stake admins have no rights to the ward calendars, they need someone to be the "admin" for the building. That's the role of the Building Scheduler.

RussellHltn wrote:Given the fact that the stake admins have no rights to the ward calendars, they need someone to be the "admin" for the building. That's the role of the Building Scheduler.

The building scheduler has no rights to the ward calendars ether all they can do is see what events have been booked for the building their responsible for, and update the details. Unless they live in one of the wards in the building and are given editor/administrator rights they can do nothing else to any calendar.

From the helps in the calendar.

"Building Scheduler Role

Stake administrators designate one or more ward building schedulers for each location. The building scheduler is responsible for all events taking place at a location. Building schedulers can do the following:

-Update the details for any event scheduled in their location.

-Reserve locations for wards at specific, recurring times.

-Block out the location for a specific time, preventing any calendar editor from scheduling it.

-Override any reservations for their locations.

Contrary to what the name might imply, building schedulers cannot actually schedule events. They can only create reservations, which are not events. (See Making Reservations for more information about the difference.)"

Gary_Miller wrote:

jdlessley wrote:Building schedulers can, or should be able to, edit and delete events on any calendar scheduled to use a location or rooms/equipment at a location for which they are assigned as a building scheduler.

In the past yes but the principles of the new calendar is for building schedulers only to be able to add reservations.

To what past are you referring? Unless there has been a change in the roles in the past two weeks, the rights of a building scheduler has not changed since the calendar was in beta. The statement that a building scheduler is "only to be able to add reservations" is not supported in experience nor in the documentation nor in need to support the role. Editing events and editing reservations are more than only being able to add reservations.

A primary function of a building scheduler is conflict resolution, whether proactive or reactive. Proactive conflict resolution is accomplished through reservations. Reactive conflict resolution is through communication, editing reservations, and editing events. Editing of either reservations or events includes deleting.

Gary_Miller wrote:A building scheduler being able to to anymore than that defeats the purpose of having editors and administrators.

Having overlapping rights does not defeat the purpose of a role. The nature of the roles will create overlap in rights to function in the capacity intended. Administrators have all the rights of editors since they have ultimate responsibility for unit calendars. It make sense so they can administer the calendar. Building schedulers have some editor rights to be able to manage the building resources and to resolve resource conflicts.

Gary_Miller wrote:Correct and according to the help section they only have rights to update the detail (edit), and I don't understand why they have that right.

To be able to resolve conflicts may require editing an event. Changing rooms scheduled or adjusting event times, to include setup or cleanup times may be necessary. Some situations may require deleting an event.

Gary_Miller wrote:

jdlessley wrote:Any change that does not allow building scheduler to delete events using a location and rooms/equipment at a location for which they are a building scheduler is a bug. The capability to delete events is a basic function of a building scheduler rights.

Not according to the documentation. And why should they be able to delete an event in which they did not set up. There is no possible reason for them to be able to do this. If there is a conflict then it should be worked out among the units involved and there should never be a conflict because someone had to book the event first so the other should find a different date, time or location. The only time I could see justifying a change would be because of a funeral.

The documentation may not be clear about what is meant by "edit". But experience as recent as two weeks ago indicates that "edit" includes "delete". In an ideal world conflicts should be handled between those involved. But that is not always the case. The role of building scheduler (The term is not an adequate description of the role and has been discussed in other threads.) includes conflict resolution. To be able to function in this role requires the tools to accomplish this. Most of us will agree that the need for the building scheduler to step in may occur few times when others communicate, or are capable of communicating.

Since I am not certain that the ability to delete an event has changed recently I will continue to assume there is a bug in the programming. We have experienced changes in functions of applications without notice from ICS in the past. Hopefully someone from the Calendar team will comment on this. Until then I am trying to contact my building scheduler to run a few tests.

Gary_Miller wrote:I have refrained from saying this because I think it should have been obvious. However, it seems to not be so obvious for some. So here goes. ITS TIME FOR EVERYONE TO GO AND READ THE HELP SECTION IN THE CALENDAR. Pay particular attention to the section on roles.

The help documentation may have areas of confusion. It is our responsibility to identify this and submit feedback when there is confusion, things are not clear, or not addressed. We have done this in the past and Tom Johnson has made appropriate updates as needed.

JD, Go look at the "Building Schedulers Role" no where does it say they have delete rights to events, nor should they have this right.

Gary_Miller wrote:JD, Go look at the "Building Schedulers Role" no where does it say they have delete rights to events, nor should they have this right.

Does the documentation dictate the functionality? Or should the documentation reflect the actual intended functionality? Since the actual functionality has been, and I think still is, that a building scheduler can delete an event, then the documentation needs to be changed to reflect that.

The discussion of the OP is that there appears to be an anomaly or bug. The documentation has not changed over the past two weeks when there was experience that a building scheduler could, and had always been able to, delete an event. Let's determine if there is or if there is an unannounced change in rights and not get wrapped around the semantics of what the documentation does or does not say.

Gary_Miller wrote:JD, Go look at the "Building Schedulers Role" no where does it say they have delete rights to events, nor should they have this right.

If you look carefully at this post, you'll see that indeed building schedulers can delete events. So this whole discussion of whether building schedulers should have the right to delete events in their building, or if they ever did, is missing the point.

The only problem which does seem to be recently introduced is the context menu that appears when you right click on the event. There the Delete Event option does not appear now for building schedulers. But if they left click on the event, they can indeed delete the event.

aebrown wrote:But if they left click on the event, they can indeed delete the event.

Left-click AND click "Edit event details & location". If you stop at that first screen, you can't.

I checked with the dev team. Building schedulers cannot delete events. If you're a building scheduler and you need to delete an event, change its location to "No Location" and contact the event creator or a ward admin to let him or her know the event should be deleted.

Note that it might be helpful to entitle building schedulers as administrators for various wards as needed. This would give building schedulers more power to add or remove events on calendars.

I'll update the documentation with this more specific detail. Let me know if there are more questions that I haven't answered from this thread.

johnsonth wrote:I checked with the dev team. Building schedulers cannot delete events.

Maybe not supposed to, but they indeed can.

johnsonth wrote:Note that it might be helpful to entitle building schedulers as administrators for various wards as needed.

Unless I'm missing something, this isn't possible. At best they can be admins for the stake and their ward. Can a ward desinate someone outside of their ward as a admin?

johnsonth wrote:I checked with the dev team. Building schedulers cannot delete events. If you're a building scheduler and you need to delete an event, change its location to "No Location" and contact the event creator or a ward admin to let him or her know the event should be deleted.

Thank You John, I knew I was not crazy.

johnsonth wrote:This would give building schedulers more power to add or remove events on calendars.

Building Schedulers do not need this power. Adding an removing events should only be done at the calendar editor/administrator level. After all the principle behind the new calendar system is to make it easier to book events on the general membership is it not.

Thanks for the clarification. This is a bug. Bldg schedulers shouldn't be able to delete events. I escalated it to the team's JIRA to address in their backlog. Most likely it will be fixed in an upcoming release.

Re giving building schedulers admin rights -- good point. I forgot that it would only work for one ward and a stake. Scratch that recommendation, then.

johnsonth wrote:Thanks for the clarification. This is a bug. Bldg schedulers shouldn't be able to delete events. I escalated it to the team's JIRA to address in their backlog. Most likely it will be fixed in an upcoming release.

I raised in issue in FORUM-28.

I think there's still an outstanding issue that the right click won't let you delete unless you are subscribed. Simply being a default admin isn't enough.

johnsonth wrote:Re giving building schedulers admin rights -- good point. I forgot that it would only work for one ward and a stake. Scratch that recommendation, then.

But thanks for pointing out that the Building Scheduler can "kick them out" of a room. That seems more reasonable than no rights at all. I'd suggest adding that to the documentation change so everyone understands that. I hadn't thought of changing locations.