Updating Address After Moving

I recently moved and was surprised to see that while my address has changed, my map marker still shows up in my old ward. I tried manually moving my own home, but I cannot do that. Is there any way to move my verified location to my correct house (or even correct ward) or will I have to go through the ward clerk (I hate to be a bother when I could easily change things myself). Thanks in advance for the help!

I have noticed this same functionality for members who have moved into our ward. Since I am a ward administrator I have to move the marker into our ward. I was not aware that adult household members were not able to "member verify" the household location. Fortunately, at least, the household is tagged as unverified so I can find those and move them.

mianmyr wrote:Is there any way to move my verified location to my correct house (or even correct ward) or will I have to go through the ward clerk (I hate to be a bother when I could easily change things myself).

This functionality is not correct. I would call this a bug.

When a household moves from one ward to another the household marker should be moved by the system and the verification tags reset. It appears the household is moved but the marker is not. Additionally the marker verification status is changed to unverified yet the tag to allow household adult members to verify the location is not reset. Since this tag is not reset the result is only ward administrators can verify and move the household.

jdlessley wrote:This functionality is not correct. I would call this a bug.

I think we've noted before that moving the marker due to a move-in takes some time. Have we allowed enough time for maps to do it's thing?

RussellHltn wrote:I think we've noted before that moving the marker due to a move-in takes some time. Have we allowed enough time for maps to do it's thing?

Most definitely yes. We have members in the ward for over two months and the marker not change from the previous location in their previous ward. The address has changed but the marker location does not change. The verified status on the map indicates "unverified" after the move and the correct current address (after the move) displayed on the map. I cannot say whether the location was ever member verified or clerk (administrator) verified in the previous wards for some of the households. But I can confirm for one household that the household was clerk verified in the previous ward.

I would assume that if the address has changed on the map that the map has updated. I don't see why the address would be updated and the household marker would take weeks or even months later to change.

jdlessley wrote:I don't see why the address would be updated and the household marker would take weeks or even months later to change.

The question is when is the geocoding process is run. I seem to recall there was a delay in that part.

I'm having the same issue with my household marker. If my records can change to the new ward, it seems like the marker should change too. Or at least reset the previous clerk's verification so I can have the ability to move my household marker.

This seems like a bug to me.

Glad to hear it's not just me having a problem. I originally thought that since a new street, where two families moved to, is not on any map yet that was the reason. But I was able to move them from Utah and Washington as clerk.
Al

I'm seeing the same issue where member's records have been moved into our ward, but the address marker on the maps is still showing the previous location. I don't know if the address had been previously verified by the member or clerk.

jdlessley wrote:Since this tag is not reset the result is only ward administrators can verify and move the household.

So that is the solution? A Ward Administrator must move the dot for all families that move into the ward and express this bug?

martyriker wrote:So that is the solution? A Ward Administrator must move the dot for all families that move into the ward and express this bug?

I expect the programmers are working on the issue. For now, those with administrator rights for verifying household locations (unit clerk, assistant clerk, assistant clerk - membership) are the only ones who can move the household location.

I found that if I edited their membership record from the lds.org log in (as the bishop, I can do this) and didn't change anything, that their geocode was updated and their dot moved to their new address. Automagically.

martyriker wrote:I found that if I edited their membership record from the lds.org log in (as the bishop, I can do this) and didn't change anything, that their geocode was updated and their dot moved to their new address. Automagically.

That's good to know. However, the address marker in the Maps application will still be in an unverified state, which is appropriate -- the position will be only as good as the built-in geocoding can place it, which is often pretty good, but sometimes misses by a house or two or three. So a clerk or bishopric member still needs to place the marker exactly or at least verify the location.

MLS -> LDS.ORG Maps not interacting correctly.

On 2-Sep-2012 Using my ward MLS software, I requested and received the records for a new couple in my ward (in SLC, Utah) who moved from Logan, Utah.
On the afternoon of 3-Sep-2012, I went to the Maps application on LDS.ORG to position and verify the location of recent move-ins.
The map location indicator (orange dot) for the couple that I requested and received membership records for about 24 hours earlier is showing as a verified location IN LOGAN, UTAH.
It appears that if a household location has been VERIFIED at their old location; that moving the household memberships to another unit (hundreds of miles away in this case), has no effect within the Maps application.
When a household is moved to a different ward in MLS and the household address changes, then the Maps application should: 1. Mark the household as UNMAPPED. 2. Attempt to geo-code the new address and if successful, set the new geo-location and set the status to UNVERIFIED.

Could you wait another day or so to see if the mapped location changes and the verified status resets to unverified and report back? There still may be some delays in the processing of move-ins for the Maps program.

I have noticed that moves within our ward (same ward but different address) are being coded for the new address and the verified status is resetting to "unverified". However I have not been checking the amount of time it takes for the new address to be reflected in the coding or verification reset.

We do have some new move-ins for which we have not yet received the records. I will check to see how those are handled.

jdlessley wrote:Could you wait another day or so to see if the mapped location changes and the verified status resets to unverified and report back? There still may be some delays in the processing of move-ins for the Maps program.

I've been waiting 24 hours. Is that not long enough? The failure I described is an example of multiple instances of this problem that I've seen.

Twenty four hours should be enough. But having it take forty eight hours is not unheard of either.

I am having the same problem, there are a number of households in our ward that are showing in the wrong places after their addresses have been updated in MLS (days, weeks, months later). However, if I edit their record through lds.org as Bishop, I don't even have to log out of the maps page just refresh it and the pin moves to the correct location as an unverified location (which is what I would expect).

This has recently become a big issue for me since the new release of LDS Tools on Android now uses these map coordinates rather than the address when navigating to an members home. I hope this can be resolved quickly since my clerks primarily use MLS for all their membership updates.

I love the applications, just hope they keep getting better.

Bruce Clawson

I don't think the issue you described will be resolved any time soon or even at all.
I have discussed this a number of times in this forum and sent messages directly to CHQ about it, and it seems there are a number of folks who don't see this as an issue. The thing is that many wards regularly verify addresses (i.e. change the marker from what was automatically positioned to a more accurate location). If MLS were to trigger a new automatic position change every time the address is updated (even for just to correct a spelling error, etc.) it might be a problem for them (they'd have to move the marker back to where it was originally verified). At this point, I'm just glad that there is a way to auto re-map without having to verify every incorrect location (by the way, if the address description is correct, there's no need for you to actually edit the data - just edit/save). It's a bit of a pain, but better than having to verify each address.

I have had this problem since my calling on 8 Apr 2012. I thought it was an issue with my new calling. I just now found this forum and realize that many of us have this issue. As recently as three weeks ago I was still moving markers from that 8 Apr 2012 date, or earlier. If you are getting markers to move within 24 - 48 hours, that is wonderful. I have moved no fewer than 21 markers in that period of time. Granted, about six or eight markers have moved automatically--but I don't understand what the difference is in those cases. I have had to move some markers from within the ward (as members changed location) in Phoenix, and some have had to be moved from California, Ohio, or New York. Prior location does not seem to matter in my experience thus far. Again, I am new in my calling as membership clerk, and I was concerned that this was an isolated situation with my calling. But markers have remained in the wrong location for me for as long as 16 weeks! I have begun to verify markers for each "new move-in" as just a routine part of my calling. And almost all of them have had to be moved by me.

jdlessley wrote:I expect the programmers are working on the issue. For now, those with administrator rights for verifying household locations (unit clerk, assistant clerk, assistant clerk - membership) are the only ones who can move the household location.

How do we ensure the programmers are working on the issue? My household is experiencing the issues descried above. We moved and our household location has been verified by my old ward and so now I cannot update my own location because it has been verified.

wheatley2 wrote:How do we ensure the programmers are working on the issue?

We have no way to control what the programmers work on. All we can do is report the issues. The more people who report the issue the better. Do not rely on others to report an issue for you. Submit feedback using the LDS.org home page since the Maps application does not have a feedback link.

wheatley2 wrote:My household is experiencing the issues descried above. We moved and our household location has been verified by my old ward and so now I cannot update my own location because it has been verified.

Any ward clerk or other ward administrators can move/verify your household location.

wheatley2 wrote:We moved and our household location has been verified by my old ward and so now I cannot update my own location because it has been verified.

I should have asked these questions before. Are you saying that your current household location, the one after the move, has not been verified by a ward leader (ward clerk, bishopric member, executive secretary) since moving to your new ward and yet it is being displayed as verified? How long have you been in your new ward? Is the household location marker mapped in your new ward boundaries or in your previous ward boundaries?

I was a clerk before we moved in July. I had verified my address in that ward and it is now October and my address is still over in my new ward. I am trying to figure out who does this but I feel bad forcing someone to correct the location if I was the one that locked it down. I get that he would have to verify anyway, but this seems like more work. It seems to me that any change to an address, no matter what, should trigger a reset to the verification and geo-location. This seems like a very serious bug over time as people use the tool more and and more wards verify locations, those dots are going to be all over the map, not helping people figure out where members live.

Wilbsguy wrote:I was a clerk before we moved in July. I had verified my address in that ward and it is now October and my address is still over in my new ward. I am trying to figure out who does this but I feel bad forcing someone to correct the location if I was the one that locked it down.

A verified household location does not lock it down. The situation you are experiencing is a bug that has been reported to the developers.

Wilbsguy wrote:It seems to me that any change to an address, no matter what, should trigger a reset to the verification and geo-location.

When a household moves, the system should take the new address and remap it. It should also reset the verified status to unverified, or unmapped as appropriate.

Just to be clear, I am getting that you moved and have a new address in the system and that Maps application has remapped your household location. The only issue is that the mapped location is not accurate and the household status is showing verified when in fact it has not been verified. Is that correct?

jdlessley wrote:When a household moves, the system should take the new address and remap it.

IIRC, if one moves into a new ward, it should do that. But a move within a ward may not. What it should do is a whole debate in itself, but that's how it seemed to work when it was working.

What I have experienced recently as a ward clerk is that:
1. The map location (orange dot) is verified correctly in another ward.
2. The household moves into my ward, and I request and receive the records.
3. The map location (orange dot) REMAINS VERIFIED at the OLD LOCATION (even after waiting a few days).

This leaves Map users in my ward confused about where the newly arrived household is living and whether they're actually in the ward. And leaves me with no indication that the orange dot may be at the wrong location and needs to be updated.

I have run into three situations.

The first is as described rontilby's post. I would add that the address in the online directory and the directory pane for Maps both show the household address in our ward as it should.

The second situation is where the household is mapped in our ward boundaries after the move but the household location marker indicates the household location has been verified when in fact it has not been verified. I haven't seen this situation since July.

The third situation is a household moves into the ward, is mapped within the boundaries, and is marked as unverified. This is the expected behavior.

I have been able to confirm with a member of the household for some of the households for the first two situations that the household location had been verified in their previous ward. But since I have not been able to confirm all the household's location status prior to the move, and I have not asked any member of a household that shows as not verified, I am not certain all households verified in another ward remains verified when the household moves.

We have a member that moved within the ward boundaries, about a year ago. I was poking around the forum and saw this thread so I looked to see what their map status was. The text in the popup shows their new address but the locator is at their old address, although it shows up as verified. I tried an edit/save from leader.lds.org (without changing any info - just click on 'edit' then click on 'save') and refreshed the map. It now shows their address as unverified and moved the market to a generic spot in our zipcode.

If I type their address into maps.lds.org, it can find the address so I'm not sure why the locator wouldn't be in the right place. It looks like about half the addresses have the unverified icon. I hope I don't have to manually move them all.

I have been recently called as the ward clerk. Our Bishop asked that I find out about the maps and why our member locations are not correctly located on the map. I found that many (if not most) of the new members to our ward (They have been in the ward for some time) are not properly located on the map. Some are at locations such as Bedord Rd instead of the actual location Bedford Heights Rd. Others are nowhere close. I have a new member who moved in with their daughter and the new location is not where the daughter lives. It does not seem that LDS Maps is using Google maps to help in the location since I pasted the address that was listed to Google Maps which found the address with no problems. Based on some of the work that I've done so far, it appears that a good 30 - 40% of our membership is mapped wrong. Is there a way to do this other than moving each member family one at a time?

kendall54 wrote:Is there a way to do this other than moving each member family one at a time?

Not presently. Once a location has been verified by a clerk, the system trusts that location even if the address is changed via MLS or the person moves to a new ward. The only way to reset the location is to edit the address using Clerk Resources on LDS.org, and even then a clerk needs to verify the new location. In many cases that extra step won't save any work, but sometimes it will.

In post #27 I posted that I ran into three situations. I have now discovered a fourth situation. It is variation of rontilby's post #26. Part of the error problem is with MLS for addresses input by units sending a household with an address to another unit. That is a topic for another thread but I thought I'd mention it here.

We had family move in about two months ago. The household was pushed to us from their previous ward who provided the new address for the move. No action was taken on our end because the address appeared to be a valid local address. The household appeared in the directory portion of the Maps application as verified (no icon to the right of the name).

There was a problem with the address however. In MLS the city was in the Address 2 field and the abbreviation for the state was in the City field. The state field had the full state name as it should. Anyone reading the address on Maps or even the Directory (the online application) would have to pick up on the additional state abbreviation to know anything was not standardized. MLS did not report a non-standard address for correction.

Of course I did not check the household location marker on the map for Maps shortly after the family moved in. When I finally did catch the address error yesterday morning I corrected it in MLS. The household still appeared as verified in Maps today and the household location marker appeared at the old address location in another state even though the address was correctly displayed in the household callout.

As has been noted by another poster, the marker was moved and the verified status changed to unverified when the address was changed in Leader and Clerk Resources. In this case the zip code was updated to the 9-digit zip from the 5-digit.

jdlessley wrote:I have now discovered a fourth situation.

Could you help me understand how this is different from what you described as the first situation, which is the basic topic of this thread? If I understand correctly, the location of the marker was exactly as has been described in most of the cases in this thread: the location was verified in the previous ward, and so the marker is still stuck in the previous ward, even though the address was changed via MLS. In this case the new address was set by the ward that moved the records out (and there was something odd about the way that ward put the address in the various address fields), but the behavior in Maps is exactly the same.

aebrown wrote:In this case the new address was set by the ward that moved the records out (and there was something odd about the way that ward put the address in the various address fields), but the behavior in Maps is exactly the same.

I don't believe there was an address error for any of the reported cases in this thread. There have been reported cases where the location marker was still in the previous ward and the household showed as unverified but had a valid local address. And there have been reported cases where the location marker was still in the previous ward and the household showed as verified and had a valid local address. But there has been no cases reported where the location marker was still in the previous ward, showed verified in the current ward, but had an address error. In this last case the failure to move the location marker is associated with the invalid address. Even with an invalid address the Maps program should show the household status as unmapped and no location marker displayed.

jdlessley wrote:In this last case the failure to move the location marker is associated with the invalid address.

How do you know that? Do you have information outside what you posted that shows that the location marker was not verified by the previous ward? Everything you've said leads me to think that it was indeed verified by the previous ward.

jdlessley wrote:Even with an invalid address the Maps program should show the household status as unmapped and no location marker displayed.

I'll agree with that. But given the current way that verified locations are treated, I would think that the status would remain as "verified" for a household moved in to your ward, regardless of whether the address is valid or invalid.

aebrown wrote:

jdlessley wrote:In this last case the failure to move the location marker is associated with the invalid address.

How do you know that? Do you have information outside what you posted that shows that the location marker was not verified by the previous ward? Everything you've said leads me to think that it was indeed verified by the previous ward.

I did not say the invalid address is the cause of the failure to move the marker. I merely observed that this is a parameter for another case where the marker does not move. The address error is associated with a household where the marker does not move. I do not know what the parameters are to cause a household marker to remain at a previous location. I am merely providing data from observation. I am making no conclusions.

I am confused by the apparent contradiction between the second question and the third sentence. The answer to the second question is I do know that the household location was verified in the previous ward because I asked. There is nothing that I wrote that should indicate that the household location was not verified in the previous ward.

aebrown wrote: But given the current way that verified locations are treated, I would think that the status would remain as "verified" for a household moved in to your ward, regardless of whether the address is valid or invalid.

What do you mean by that? Are you saying this is the way the system should work? Or are you saying the system is not functioning correctly? I hope the latter because a household that moves from one ward to another should have the verified status reset. If the address is valid then the status should be unverified until verified. If the address is invalid then the status should be unmapped.

jdlessley wrote:I did not say the invalid address is the cause of the failure to move the marker. I merely observed that this is a parameter for another case where the marker does not move.

When you said "In this last case the failure to move the location marker is associated with the invalid address" I incorrectly assumed that when you said "associated with" you were implying "caused by"; thanks for clarifying this. I now understand that you were saying that the failure to move the location marker was caused by the same bug that has been discussed throughout this thread -- a verified location remains verified even after a change of ward.

jdlessley wrote:I am confused by the apparent contradiction between the second question and the third sentence. The answer to the second question is I do know that the household location was verified in the previous ward because I asked. There is nothing that I wrote that should indicate that the household location was not verified in the previous ward.

There's no contradiction. I was just trying to understand the situation and exploring different possibilities. Previously you said that "The household appeared in the directory portion of the Maps application as verified"; now you've explained that it indeed was verified by the previous ward. So that makes the situation clear.

jdlessley wrote:What do you mean by that? Are you saying this is the way the system should work? Or are you saying the system is not functioning correctly? I hope the latter because a household that moves from one ward to another should have the verified status reset. If the address is valid then the status should be unverified until verified. If the address is invalid then the status should be unmapped.

You chose not to quote my previous statement, which was "I'll agree with that [Your statement that 'even with an invalid address the Maps program should show the household status as unmapped and no location marker displayed.']" I most certainly don't think that a verified location should remain verified when a household moves to a new ward. I was simply stating that "given the current way that verified locations are treated" the validity of the address supplied by the ward that moves the record out has no impact on this issue; a verified location remains verified. That's not the way I or anyone else wants it to work.

The bottom line is that we're in complete agreement about how it does work and how it should work. Thanks for clearing up my confusion about what you were saying.

rontilby wrote:What I have experienced recently as a ward clerk is that:
1. The map location (orange dot) is verified correctly in another ward.
2. The household moves into my ward, and I request and receive the records.
3. The map location (orange dot) REMAINS VERIFIED at the OLD LOCATION (even after waiting a few days).

This leaves Map users in my ward confused about where the newly arrived household is living and whether they're actually in the ward. And leaves me with no indication that the orange dot may be at the wrong location and needs to be updated.

This is my biggest issue at the moment. I've been tasked with fixing the location of markers on our ward's map. They don't have to be exact to a house, but they should be within 100ft. I am not a ward clerk, so I don't have the ability to make the necessary changes directly. I am a website administrator, (that is not my calling and was only done to help with another task of getting photos into the directory) but that doesn't seem to give me any special powers in the mapping application.

My current plan is to create a spreadsheet of households and "corrected" addresses that are more likely to map correctly, and then hand that off to a ward clerk to copy/paste into MLS. But there are a number of households that have a correct address, but still show up at their previous location, and my plan will do nothing to fix those.

martyriker wrote:I found that if I edited their membership record from the lds.org Sign in (as the bishop, I can do this) and didn't change anything, that their geocode was updated and their dot moved to their new address. Automagically.

Is the bishop the only one that can do this, or can counselors/clerks also perform this task? What are the steps to do this (ie, what is clicked on from the lds.org homepage)? I don't have permissions to do this so I have no idea what is involved, but if I can create step-by-step instructions with a list of people, then I'm sure I can get someone to do it.

greggo wrote:I don't think the issue you described will be resolved any time soon or even at all.
I have discussed this a number of times in this forum and sent messages directly to CHQ about it, and it seems there are a number of folks who don't see this as an issue. The thing is that many wards regularly verify addresses (i.e. change the marker from what was automatically positioned to a more accurate location). If MLS were to trigger a new automatic position change every time the address is updated (even for just to correct a spelling error, etc.) it might be a problem for them (they'd have to move the marker back to where it was originally verified). At this point, I'm just glad that there is a way to auto re-map without having to verify every incorrect location (by the way, if the address description is correct, there's no need for you to actually edit the data - just edit/save). It's a bit of a pain, but better than having to verify each address.

This is most definitely broken, a change in MLS should absolutely trigger a new geocode. What you're describing as a process is simply wrong, addresses should not be verified with an incorrect address or errors in the address. That's the whole point of the verification.

Atamido wrote:This is most definitely broken, a change in MLS should absolutely trigger a new geocode. What you're describing as a process is simply wrong, addresses should not be verified with an incorrect address or errors in the address. That's the whole point of the verification.

You're preaching to the choir. I don't think anyone likes the way it currently works.

Atamido wrote:My current plan is to create a spreadsheet of households and "corrected" addresses that are more likely to map correctly, and then hand that off to a ward clerk to copy/paste into MLS.

I have two suggestions. The first is that you only concern yourself with correcting invalid addresses or known incorrect address formatting. Determining whether and address is properly formatted in MLS without the necessary permissions to edit membership records is nearly impossible for some formatting errors. For example if the City is in the "Street 2" field instead of the City field you cannot see this in the online directory or in maps. Yet this error will cause mapping issues. The most likely of which is an unmapped location.

The second suggestion is to not only provide the corrected address to the clerk but include the geographic coordinates. Providing the coordinates is about the best way to ensure the correct mapping location. You can provide the coordinates for household locations that have correct and properly formatted addresses yet do not map accurately or correctly.

Getting the coordinates can be done either by going to the address with a GPS enabled device that provides coordinate readout or by using online GIS mapping provided by local government agencies. I use the latter because our county provides an accurate online county GIS and addressing map. Only individual apartment addresses cannot be verified by the county map.

Atamido wrote:Is the bishop the only one that can do this, or can counselors/clerks also perform this task?

The bishop, ward clerk, assistant ward clerk, and assistant ward clerk - membership can do this.

Atamido wrote:What are the steps to do this?

1. Sign in to LDS.org
2. Click either Leader Resources or Clerk Resources from the Tools menu.
3. Click "Member List" in the Membership menu item
4. Find a member of the household by either of these methods -
   - Entering the name starting with the surname in the "Find member in list:" text box. As you type the list is shortened as the possible name matches are reduced.
   - Scroll the window list of names until the desired name appears.
5. Click the desired name from the list.
6. Click the Edit icon next to the "Contact Information" label in the "Individual" tab.

The steps listed is just one method of getting to a record to edit. There are different routes, but other methods vary only slightly.

I got a response from the feedback link on the main site that gives me hope.

The LDS Church responded on November 19, 2012 at 11:36 AM as follows:
This is a known bug that we are trying to fix in our next release.

jdlessley wrote:The second suggestion is to not only provide the corrected address to the clerk but include the geographic coordinates. Providing the coordinates is about the best way to ensure the correct mapping location. You can provide the coordinates for household locations that have correct and properly formatted addresses yet do not map accurately or correctly.

That's a new feature from the last time I used MLS. Bravo on them for having the wisdom to add it.

jdlessley wrote:Getting the coordinates can be done either by going to the address with a GPS enabled device that provides coordinate readout or by using online GIS mapping provided by local government agencies. I use the latter because our county provides an accurate online county GIS and addressing map. Only individual apartment addresses cannot be verified by the county map.

Using Bing Maps, if you right click a location then it will give you the GPS coordinates (a feature I just discovered last night).

Atamido wrote:That's a new feature from the last time I used MLS. Bravo on them for having the wisdom to add it.

I hope you did not think that the clerk can enter the coordinates to position the location marker. That is not an option. But the coordinates for the current location and the new location are displayed in the "Set Location" box while moving a marker. By knowing the coordinates, the clerk can position the marker and view the coordinates as he moves the cursor crosshatch to the desired location.

jdlessley wrote:I hope you did not think that the clerk can enter the coordinates to position the location marker. That is not an option. But the coordinates for the current location and the new location are displayed in the "Set Location" box while moving a marker. By knowing the coordinates, the clerk can position the marker and view the coordinates as he moves the cursor crosshatch to the desired location.

Oh, that's too bad. I thought they would do that for places that don't have an actual address, but that's life.