Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use...Suggestions?

Hi,

I'm putting together some recommendations for physical facilities (at the request of my Stake President), for replacing the Stake Centers old TV (CRT) and Trolley (if needed). The issue being modern connections, HDMI, USB, DVI, don't interface at all with the current TV and we are forever having to borrow equipment from home or use a projector, latop and portable speakers combination to show simple media snippets, which is admin intensive.

Finding a replacement LCD or plasma TV should be no problem.

However replacing the trolley/cart to support an LCD or plasma, is entering a new space for us. Has anyone out there completed this upgrade successfully. Anyone know if the Church is rolling out a standard trolley to replace the big old four wheelers you drag out of the library?

Here's an example of trolley that I think could make a nice replacement, see link below.
http://www.dreamav.co.uk/vogels_plasmaboy_trolley.html

Looking for some alternatives, your thoughts?

Our facilities group provided us with an LCD set and installed it on a standard trolley.

mhackwell wrote:Our facilities group provided us with an LCD set and installed it on a standard trolley.

The only flatscreen I have seen in a building was bolted to the stop of a standard cart... No need to spend extra to replace a cart that works.

Aaron Z

I think we have one new digital TV setup, probably the size of a 23" computer monitor, and in a HP group meeting hooked up a laptop to that and ran two videos on that, with little problem.

Did a Sunday School FH class and we still had the older 13" TV with DVD player, it's probably one from before digital was mandatory to be part of all new TVs (that was 2006 I think), so we're probably only using it for situations where we have the DVD needed.

Many of those could be around a while, a TV with heavy use in a home lasts an average of nine years, but one that sees almost no use or only about 30 minutes of use a week is going to last a lot longer. While taking service calls for a large company, I got a call for someone's 1975 25" TV, it had worked up until that morning when a lightning strike finally fried it (she had an MA, the call was just to have the tech come out to declare it dead). That was in 2000, so some of those old models will last somewhat longer.

JamesAnderson wrote:Many of those could be around a while, a TV with heavy use in a home lasts an average of nine years, but one that sees almost no use or only about 30 minutes of use a week is going to last a lot longer.

The ones we have are doing great (purchased in 2002 or so), other than the ones where the jacks have been ripped out (someone didn't disconnect the catv cable before rolling the cart back the the library and ripped out).

Aaron Z

mhackwell wrote:Our facilities group provided us with an LCD set and installed it on a standard trolley.

I wonder what kind of mount they used to bolt it to the Trolley? Is it secure?

jbianchi wrote:I wonder what kind of mount they used to bolt it to the Trolley? Is it secure?

In our stake they drilled 4 holes through the base of the TV and bolted it to the cart. The base will probbaly break before the bolts will come loose.

Aaron Z

I recently purchased replacement 24" LG LED Flatscreen TVs that can play videos from a USB flash drive for our Library. We have 3 carts that had the old TV/VCR CRT TVs on them. What I did was just lay the Flatscreens flat on the carts face down with all the wires still plugged in as needed and posted signs on the back of the TV and the front of the cart that asked member to place the TVs flat on the carts before moving. No bolting or breaking of the base from the TV that way. Works Great. I even got 3 more flatscreens for more classes that were demanding use of the TVs so I purchased 3 large reusable shopping bags for $1 each and the instructors just pull them out of the bag and place them on the classroom tables to play the videos.

What a shame that we are letting the FM group get out from under these costs... stakes using budget money and kids and families getting the raw end of the deal. How many fundraisers taking away time from families would be avoided.. etc...

There is no need to research anything. The current cart the church is delivering when you receive a new 32in TV is similar to the one shown here http://www.displays2go.com/Product.aspx?ID=19585 minus the laptop extension. I also attached a picture.

It mounts solidly to the top of the cart and the tubes can hide cable runs - They are very nice if your FMG doesn't assemble them like mine did and hid the cable run holes with the crossbar- I had to re-do EVERY TV they delivered, it was just so sad, they just about did something worth praising them for, but just couldn't endure to the end.

We just receive 12 new ones for our stake (I started the process in January 2012 so we were well prepared for this year)

JohnShaw wrote:What a shame that we are letting the FM group get out from under these costs... stakes using budget money and kids and families getting the raw end of the deal. How many fundraisers taking away time from families would be avoided.. etc...

It is rather frustrating down on the ward level to be completely out-of-the-loop on these matters. We read in forums like this that we have to put in a request a year in advance so that the FM group can budget for something like a new TV. Meanwhile, we have LDS.org youth videos already "expiring" each month. (And we didn't even know, a year ago, that the new curriculum would have videos like this.) In our stake, we were told at the end of 2012 that the stake would buy us a new TV and then, by early February, we heard otherwise. (...But only because we asked rather than continuing to patiently wait for the TV to arrive. If we hadn't asked, we'd still be waiting.) So the Bishops just decided to do it.

We read/hear rumors that the FM group has bigger problems to worry about (like a sudden increase in the full-time missionary population) but these are only rumors. If true, we can only speculate about when funds will become available again for the things we used to get from the FM group. On the ward level, we get tired of waiting (...while still remaining out of the loop).

I feel your pain. The FM/Stake relationship is the most broken organizational structure I've ever encountered. Where it works well, it is only due to personalities involved at that is always a recipe for failure.

We purchased a 46" flat screen for our Stake and a appropriate stand for it. I have seen cracked bases on TVs that have been attached to the big black carts and whether it's a old CRT or new flat screen they are just clunky and difficult to move through hallways.

Along with our flat screen we purchased a Peerless cart for flat screens:

http://www.amazon.com/Peerless-Universa ... lling+Cart

It is easy to see around, has a nice metal shelf for devices, cord wrap, and large wheels for pushing around. I feel a lot more comfortable having the flat screen on an appropriate cart that was designed for this application.

JonesRC wrote:We purchased a 46" flat screen for our Stake and a appropriate stand for it. I have seen cracked bases on TVs that have been attached to the big black carts and whether it's a old CRT or new flat screen they are just clunky and difficult to move through hallways.

Along with our flat screen we purchased a Peerless cart for flat screens:

http://www.amazon.com/Peerless-Universa ... lling+Cart

It is easy to see around, has a nice metal shelf for devices, cord wrap, and large wheels for pushing around. I feel a lot more comfortable having the flat screen on an appropriate cart that was designed for this application.

($400 for the television) + ($400 for the cart) = ($800)/($250 cost of camp for one Youth) =3.2 youth who ether did not go to camp or had a stain placed on their family budget. All because the stake choose to not follow the proper channels when purchasing equipment.

On top of that the TV that was purchased was well over the maximum size guidelines for meeting house libraries.

I like it... just "yikes" on the price. That's more than we paid for a good 39" TV itself. (The TV was on sale.) Since we already have the TV, maybe the FM group could pitch in on the cart for it.

Gary_Miller wrote:On top of that the TV that was purchased was well over the maximum size guidelines for meeting house libraries.

Is that 25" limit still the current guideline? Seems pretty out-dated to me. If you go into any typical electronics store the smallest flat-screen TV today is 19 inches. There aren't many to choose from and even in the 24" size there aren't many.

The meetinghouse library "start-up" recommendations strike me as about 20 years old. If the 25" size was recommended for a standard-definition, heavy, tube-based (CRT) monitor then the screen on that TV was 15 inches tall. Today, if you had a flat-screen (lightweight), HDTV monitor with a 15-inch-tall screen, then the diagonal measurement on that screen would be just under 31 inches. So the correct upgrade for an old 25" monitor would be closer to today's 32-inch specification. Also, I presume that part of the reason for the 25" limit was that anything larger would be very heavy and potentially dangerous to wheel around the building. That is no longer an issue. Furthermore, I recall buying a 26" TV in 1989 for about $600 (for a respectable Mitsubishi model). Today, that $600 could go a lot further.

So, in summary, I reject the 25-inch limit and believe that the meetinghouse library "start up kit" recommendations should be re-written from scratch (for reasons that include what they say about TVs and VCRs as well as other items).
https://www.lds.org/callings/sunday-sch ... t?lang=eng

mrrad wrote:So, in summary, I reject the 25-inch limit and believe that the "start up kit" recommendations should be re-written from scratch (for reasons that include what they say about TVs and VCRs as well as other items).

You can reject it all you want. It still does not justify going outside the guidelines set by the leadership of the church, no matter how you feel about it.

So I guess I'll have to get rid of the DVDs, the DVD player and anything that can play videos from a USB flash drive, since they're not on that list. And I'll bring the transparency, overhead projector back up from storage and make sure it's front-and-center on a library shelf.

This will be an ongoing debate until options are presented and decisions are made at the Enterprise level. Many Stakes choose to update their local hardware striving to strike a balance with using the media the Church has created, and encouraged members to use, with how to spend their local budget. Current guidelines also don't include a Roku or WD Box but it is a recommendation that has been provided as an option but that is currently NOT supported by HQ. Many are finding it necessary to upgrade current equipment so they can use the resources being created by the Church. It just happens that media creation is currently ahead of local units ability, with current standard equipment, to use it. There are a lot of creative, and cost effective, solutions being installed around the Church so members can use the media the Church produces. There is no doubt that when properly used media can inspire and invite the Spirit. It is not required to teach but a picture speaks a thousand words and hearing the words of Prophets and Apostles lends so much to the context of a quote. Mormon Messages and I Am A Mormon videos help inspire and help us relate to members around the World who face similar challenges and questions. Hearing and seeing members testimonies helps connect and make us feel like we are part of something much bigger. The New Youth Curriculum training videos help teachers and youth better understand the program and helps us see it in action by seeing it modeled. I don't fault anyone for determining and balancing their locals needs with how to incorporate LDS media into teaching and training. Hopefully, in time, equipment will catch up so the full burden of purchase doesn't rest on local units.

I hear you and understand all your pain. However, may argument is not about using the media that's available, I totally support it. My argument is that funding media equipment is not a proper use of LUBA, that is what the FM budget is for. And while FM may be slow, do to budget constants, they are still responsible for funding of media equipment.

As a long time youth leader and a ward clerk I see the burden that is place on ward budgets and families when there is not enough money to fund youth the youth program. I have seen the effect not having a good program has on the activity levels of youth, and the outcome is not pretty. It does not matter how good the videos are for Sunday lessons or how well they are presented, If you can't get the youth there it is all for nothing. Good weekday youth activities ensure that youth are kept involved in the gospel on Sunday.

LUBA funds directed to media equipment is money taken from youth activity budgets, which place a financial burden on families and youth leaders.

I've watched several of these new videos for the youth and I'm very impressed. Having these kinds of presentations every week may be more useful than, say, a once-a-year campout (but we're still having the campout anyway). In our case, new AV equipment was paid for entirely by leftover budget money from previous years which, these days, we're able to keep. The Bishops evaluated the absolutely pathetic assortment of outdated equipment in our library and the Stake/FM Group unwillingness to help. Then the Bishops made their decision. They've already received dozens of hours of free help (from me) to get it all put together along with managing the video files and USB drives for them. Financially, I think they got a very good deal. The grateful feedback I personally received from a stranger in another ward is, as they say in the commercial, priceless.

Gary_Miller wrote:All because the stake choose to not follow the proper channels when purchasing equipment.

On top of that the TV that was purchased was well over the maximum size guidelines for meeting house libraries.

I believe it might be more correct to say that perhaps the stake chose not to follow printed/published channels. Our stake has unpublished guidelines. But that would be a very short discussion and would belong in another topic.

mrrad wrote:Having these kinds of presentations every week may be more useful than, say, a once-a-year campout (but we're still having the campout anyway).

The youth activity program is much more than a once a year campout. Its a weekly program which if conducted properly will help the youth by strenghting the principles they learn on Sunday, you might call it a labratory. It is also the program that helps influence the youth to want to attend Sunday meetings.

mrrad wrote:In our case, new AV equipment was paid for entirely by leftover budget money from previous years which, these days, we're able to keep.

Which is not in line with the published budget guidlines for unneeded budget allowance funds. While wards and stakes may retain some unspent funds purchasing of AV equipment is not one of the exceptions.

mrrad wrote: The Bishops evaluated the absolutely pathetic assortment of outdated equipment in our library and the Stake/FM Group unwillingness to help. Then the Bishops made their decision. They've already received dozens of hours of free help (from me) to get it all put together along with managing the video files and USB drives for them. Financially, I think they got a very good deal. The grateful feedback I personally received from a stranger in another ward is, as they say in the commercial, priceless.

While it may have been a good with grateful feedback the purchase was not inline with the printed guidline in the handbook of instructions for the proper use of LUBA.

lajackson wrote:I believe it might be more correct to say that perhaps the stake chose not to follow printed/published channels. Our stake has unpublished guidelines. But that would be a very short discussion and would belong in another topic.

It would seem to me that the published guidelines in the Handbook of Instructions trumps any unpublished or published guidelines from the stake.

Gary_Miller wrote:It would seem to me that the published guidelines in the Handbook of Instructions trumps any unpublished or published guidelines from the stake.

You are correct. The current Handbook does, and the former Handbook of Instructions did, trump any stake guidelines. The guidelines to which I refer do not come from the stake.

Has anyone received a 47" TV from their FM group? I asked someone in ours to check their meeting house order list last week, and it shows an LG 32" and LG 47" TV (good news). The only problem is that they say they can't replace our 4-year-old 22" LCD's as long as they are functional.

The consensus of both bishoprics in the building is that the 22" TV's are non-functional, in that they are way too small for class viewing. TV sizing guideline support this. And, possibly the church as well, as the 22" is no longer offered.

The initial comments I heard when reporting back that we are stuck with the 22" TVs were focus around ways to make them non-functional(slip n' fall). While no one will take such inappropriate measures, it does reflect on the rift between local units and the FM group.

I would agree that using local unit funds is not appropriate; however, when your back is up against the wall. . .

I'm glad to see that the Law of Moses has been replaced by "the good news" but wish this news could rise above the rumor stage so that we could stop arguing about it here. (A 47" TV? That IS good news!) Plus, I'm still happy we have good equipment and it's all being used and appreciated, even if I have to come here and find out how horribly we violated spending policies to make this good thing happen.

Edit: Additional: A few weeks after our Bishops decided to buy a couple of new TVs (after we'd been told that the stake and FM group would not be helping) we had two new pieces of gear mysteriously show up (presumably from the FM group). They are 24" TV/DVD Player combo units. They have USB ports on the back but they're only good for playing audio files or showing still photos from a "thumb drive". They cannot play video files downloaded from the church web site. So, while we got a couple of good DVD players, these "new" devices are quite inadequate to support the church's download-based systems for playing new videos. Good thing I was able to make DVDs from the church's downloads. Now we have four good systems for showing videos in classes. And we're still not sure that's enough but happy with what we have. Still no regrets about the equipment we bought which CAN play videos from thumb drives.

...and one more point. If we only had the DVD players (and if I wasn't able to make DVDs from the downloaded material) then this generous gift from the FM group would merely be an invitation to spend a lot of budget money on DVDs from the Distribution Center... since our library only has about 5 or 6 DVDs right now anyway (besides the ones I made). And we still wouldn't be able to show the Youth curriculum videos.

The short, download-able videos are amazingly useful. Who's really going to be able to show, say, the feature film Legacy (available on DVD) in a lesson? You could break it up and show it over the course of two or three Sundays but... really? The download-able videos are the way to go, for sure, and any new equipment should be selected with the idea that it can support them.

The 47" TV is more than a rumor. I was just wondering if anyone had successfully requested and received a 47" from their FM group yet.

I had asked our FM group to check for changes to the approved list. They pulled up the Purchase Reference Guide and we found the following to items listed in the Meetinghouse section:
1) Item 10225 -- 32" TV (LG 32LT560E)
2) Item 57447 -- 47" TV (LG 47LT560E.

Knowing it is now listed and getting it are not the same. As I mentioned, they came back and said they couldn't replace the tiny 22" TVs until they are no longer functional.

Considering digital media and streaming?

If so, read this tantalizing post first:
https://tech.lds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=14351

A local media server that is supported and automatically updated from Salt Lake? Sounds quite promising, but heed the note stating that "none of this is written in stone".

We looked into getting a Roku for streaming the Mormon channel (great content), and possibly compiling our own media server, or USB drives. However, the ongoing task of locating and updating media is in no way appealing to us, so we have tabled this until we can find out more about the above project.

bellfamily4,

Ping me offline i have about 60 GB of the videos already downloaded.. anything that could be I did... including seminary, CES.... it took me all summer last year, but now that I have them, the upkeep is quite simple. If you want to send me a flash drive I'll copy them all for you.

not sure where the project went you were referring to. it's been almost a year now...

Check out This snazzy, updated list of materials that are now recommended for the library! Hurray!

We have 3 units in our building plus early morning Seminary for 8 units that all meet in our building (10 classes), and we can't get new TV's until the existing ones no longer function. We don't have 4 year old 22" LCDs, we have very year old small tube TVs with DVD/VCR players. I am being asked constantly by our teachers how to show video in the classroom. Nearly all of them have a mobile device (Android or iOS) that they want to connect to a TV. So teachers are beginning to bring in their own setups to take advantage of the new media (yes, including full TV and speaker equipment to play from their iOS device). Is the answer really for each of them to buy their own cables and speakers and in some cases, TV's and bring them in each week? (I don't know what the seminary teachers are doing...)

I'm sure the FM group is getting slammed with requests, that Church-wide everyone wants new equipment. What is the answer in the interim? I do not want the ward budget to pay for it (I agree with the earlier discussion about funds taken out of the youth programs), but if not FM, not ward, not stake then it falls back on to the teachers called, which doesn't feel right to me.

Problem is, there is no good answer right now. And we are 8 months into this new curriculum and teachers have not been able to use the media with much success. I can't tell you how many teachers tried and gave up on showing the videos during their lesson. I wish I could help them better.

kcmcbride wrote:but if not FM, not ward, not stake then it falls back on to the teachers called, which doesn't feel right to me.

Or the last option - do without (for now).

I've seen this twice before: When MLS and Internet was each introduced. At first stakes could participate, but at their own cost, then later the church supplied the equipment though the FM group. In each case, the stake either found the money in their budget or went without.

kcmcbride wrote:We have 3 units in our building plus early morning Seminary for 8 units that all meet in our building (10 classes), and we can't get new TV's until the existing ones no longer function. We don't have 4 year old 22" LCDs, we have very year old small tube TVs with DVD/VCR players.

If the TV can't play current material (and the church no longer supports VHS tapes in the distribution center... so you could claim that the tapes are no longer current) then I'd say your current gear "no longer functions." But you have DVD players, unfortunately, so someone else could push back on that assessment. Trouble is, there are no official DVDs of the current videos offered as a companion to the youth curriculum. So I'd still make the argument that your equipment "no longer functions" for the purposes needed.

When we were in a similar situation, someone from the stake or FM group kinda winked when they said, "As long as it's broken, we'll have to replace it. So just make sure it's broken." But I don't like playing games. I don't want to intentionally break something or lie about its functionality. Again, if it can't play the current curriculum then, in my mind, it's "broken."

Of course, you could find someone who knows how and would be willing to burn the current, downloadable videos onto DVDs as a stop-gap as long as your DVD players are working. I've done this for my own meetinghouse's wards.

I know that some around here will say we did a very bad thing when we bought new gear for our ward in the way that we bought it. But the Bishops agreed and we now have really useful stuff that (and this is the part that makes me the happiest) people use often! Personally, I think it's wonderful to have this stuff (and we still held Scout Camp this year without a problem).

mrrad wrote:I know that some around here will say we did a very bad thing when we bought new gear for our ward in the way that we bought it. But the Bishops agreed and we now have really useful stuff that (and this is the part that makes me the happiest) people use often!

And that justifies not following church guidelines for funding equipment?

mrrad wrote:Personally, I think it's wonderful to have this stuff (and we still held Scout Camp this year without a problem).

Was that with or with out participates having to pay all or part costs, or having to do fund raisers to cover all or part of the costs? And would that be not only for Scout Camps but also YW camps and Cub Scout Day Camps as well?

Gary_Miller wrote:church guidelines for funding equipment?

The operative word being "guideline". Guidelines allow exceptions.

Gary_Miller wrote:...And that justifies not following church guidelines for funding equipment?

...Was that with or with out participates having to pay all or part costs, or having to do fund raisers to cover all or part of the costs? And would that be not only for Scout Camps but also YW camps and Cub Scout Day Camps as well?

I sense some hostility in the way you're asking the questions, but I'll try to remain civil in my reply. Because of confusion over the way CUBS budgeting "guidelines" were interpreted, we happened to have an awful lot of leftover budget funds from previous years. (Not to be too specific, but it added up to more than 50% of a one-year budget that was surplus and, thanks to the way budget funds are handled now, it was just sitting there in our ward account.) The other two wards also had leftover funds from previous years. It was up to the Bishops to decide how to responsibly use that money and/or to return it to the stake… the same stake in which the leadership said they couldn't help us buy new equipment this year. So I suppose they could have given it back to the stake (which wasn't asking for it) and then requested that the stake return it so that we could spend it. Seems inefficient at best.

As for the annual youth fundraising activity, we certainly did consider canceling it this year. But it was decided that the youth needed the experience of volunteering their participation, or, in other words, "It would do them some good to work on this and feel a sense of responsibility for this funding." Also, since our annual fundraiser happens as part of the community's July 4th celebration, if we decided not to participate there was concern that the community would find someone else to offer the service and we wouldn't be able to "get our place back" in the future when we'd definitely need the funding again.

And, in the end, we had all three Bishops agree to this plan. So I'll let them decide if they can sleep well at night. Now we have equipment that is used as opposed to the old equipment that wasn't being used at all. Electronic equipment that is never used might as well be in a dumpster already.

russellhltn wrote:The operative word being "guideline". Guidelines allow exceptions.

Here lye's the problem.

Know where in the training material do you find that the established guideline are there to follow unless its felt that it could be do differently. Its says the guidelines are to be followed period and has specific instructions on circumstances that may permit local adaptation. And purchasing of equipment is not one of the adaptations.

mrrad wrote:I sense some hostility in the way you're asking the questions, but I'll try to remain civil in my reply.

Not hostile at all. Just concerned that families are having financial burdens placed upon them because leaders decided to not follow established local unit budget allowance policies.

mrrad wrote: Because of confusion over the way CUBS budgeting "guidelines" were interpreted, we happened to have an awful lot of leftover budget funds from previous years.

Interesting since the budgeting policies on how the funds are to be used have not changed very much since the LUBA was first established. Which was long before CUBS.

mrrad wrote: The other two wards also had leftover funds from previous years. It was up to the Bishops to decide how to responsibly use that money and/or to return it to the stake… the same stake in which the leadership said they couldn't help us buy new equipment this year. So I suppose they could have given it back to the stake (which wasn't asking for it) and then requested that the stake return it so that we could spend it. Seems inefficient at best.

The handbook is very specific on what to do with surplus funds and what surplus funds can be held/used for. For the record its not to fund media equipment.

mrrad wrote: As for the annual youth fundraising activity, we certainly did consider canceling it this year. But it was decided that the youth needed the experience of volunteering their participation, or, in other words, "It would do them some good to work on this and feel a sense of responsibility for this funding." Also, since our annual fundraiser happens as part of the community's July 4th celebration, if we decided not to participate there was concern that the community would find someone else to offer the service and we wouldn't be able to "get our place back" in the future when we'd definitely need the funding again.

Interesting that the Funding of Activities policy does not use any of this when determining if a fundraiser would be appropriate and necessary.

mrrad wrote:And, in the end, we had all three Bishops agree to this plan. So I'll let them decide if they can sleep well at night. Now we have equipment that is used as opposed to the old equipment that wasn't being used at all. Electronic equipment that is never used might as well be in a dumpster already.

How I wish that just once a Audit would be given that looks at what funds are being used for to ensure they are with in established church policies, instead of just making sure the proper documentation is on file.

mrrad wrote:I sense some hostility in the way you're asking the questions, but I'll try to remain civil in my reply.

I sense more of a frustration. Within his area of jurisdiction and responsibility, and with the support of his bishop and stake president, what Gary_Miller says is perfectly fine. But his interpretation, no matter how well intentioned and heartfelt, does not have application outside that jurisdiction.

We do not know the circumstances under which other leaders function. What others choose to do under the direction of their priesthood leaders, who may very well have been granted exceptions even to the Handbook, is up to them.

There are many gospel principles on which I feel very strongly and cannot fathom how others might feel differently. But sometimes they do. And I just have to let it go.

Agency and stewardship. What a powerful combination.

Indeed. For all I know, my stake president might have told my bishop something like, "We can't pay for it but if you have the money..." I've been surprised, at times, with the open frustration (hostiliy?) expressed on these forums towards the FM Group. They are generally regarded as an inefficient organization which moves as a snail's pace and refuses to give anyone a "heads up" on their plans and timelines. If we had relied solely on the FM Group, the best we'd have now would be a TV/DVD player combo unit, which would sit in the library being used by nobody if not for the DVDs I've been making. (Seriously, the available DVDs from the Distribution Center include stuff that drips with 1980s music and hairstyles and/or feature-length movies that you would never watch in a standard class period. But the new videos you can download are wonderful.)

"The rules" about A/V equipment have, unfortunately, not always been practical. As recently as earlier this year we were arguing about how it was against policy to have a TV larger than 26 inches. Of course, those guidelines have been updated. (What a relief!) In the fast-moving world of technology I hope the guidelines will be reviewed and updated In very short intervals (such as multiple times each year).

lajackson wrote:I sense more of a frustration. Within his area of jurisdiction and responsibility, and with the support of his bishop and stake president, what Gary_Miller says is perfectly fine.

The only frustration I have is the same frustration felt by the !st Presidency when they have to fix something because the handbooks where not followed. In the handbook training President Monson gave several problems that had accrued in the past that would have not happened had the leaders involved just followed the written policies in the handbook.

I don't understand why others can't see the problems that arise when the LUBA policies are not followed. Problems such as people not being reimbursed because they don't feel they can ask for reimbursement because they hear there is no funds. Problems for the individual/families having to participate in camp funding, because some leader thought participates would better appreciate the camp if they provided part of the funding, even though there is plenty of funds in the budget. Problems caused by units doing unnecessary fund raisers (which by the way should be an exception) because we always have done a fund raiser or because some leader feels the youth should earn their way, even though there is plenty of funds in the budget. Then you hear someone say we diverted money from the budget to media equipment or laptop computers and it was not a big deal because our camps were funded by individual participation and fund raisers so we had a surplus. And this does not bother people even though the policy say different. Because the Bishop or Stake President said it was OK, I find it hard to respect a leader that does such things, and even harder to follow them. And this is happening through out the church.

lajackson wrote:But his interpretation, no matter how well intentioned and heartfelt, does not have application outside that jurisdiction.

Please understand its not my interpretation the Handbook is very clear on what the LUBA can and can't be used for. It is also very clear on how to fund long term camps.

lajackson wrote:We do not know the circumstances under which other leaders function. What others choose to do under the direction of their priesthood leaders, who may very well have been granted exceptions even to the Handbook, is up to them.

The training material made it very clear that "policy directions are approved and announced only by the First Presidency. They are not introduced through rumor from one leader or member to another."

When we put false information out on this form, such as funding media equipment using the LUBA. We introduce through rumor that its OK and its within the approved policies as long as its approved by the local leadership. This is wrong as the local leadership, even though they hold the keys for their area, do not have the authority to deviate or change policy from what is stated in the handbooks.

Gary_Miller wrote:I don't understand . . .

No, you don't.

You have made some excellent points (again) and have advocated many correct principles. But you have not understood what I said.

If you are interested, I will be happy to explain further and will give you my personal email by PM if you wish.

lajackson wrote:

Gary_Miller wrote:I don't understand . . .

No, you don't.

You have made some excellent points (again) and have advocated many correct principles. But you have not understood what I said.

If you are interested, I will be happy to explain further and will give you my personal email by PM if you wish.

I think I understand perfectly what it is you are saying. However, if you feel from my remarks that I'm missing something please feel free to explain further in order to help me understand more perfectly. You can do it here on the form or just PM me your explanation. Thanks.

Gary_Miller wrote:I think I understand perfectly what it is you are saying.

I think it would be better if I send a PM this evening after I get home from work, which I will plan to do.

(Resurrecting an old thread)

I like Johnshaw's -provided TV cart/trolley/stand; simple and looks to be sturdy.

We are in the process of getting an appropriate cart for a 60" LCD display, which is a process that seemed easy at first, but more daunting every day.

Features that were especially important in my search for something to handle a large display:
- Sturdiness (unlikely to tip over when moving)
- Be able to fit through doors (not too wide, not too tall [or could be lowered easily])
- Able to handle a large TV format (VESA mounts)
- Cost

I finally zeroed in on the following cart that met most of the above requirements:
http://baltav.com/product.php?c=flat-pa ... -mount-c6b

My first attempt at purchase resulted in the reseller (Walmart) saying they were out of stock.
My second attempt resulted in me receiving 2/3 boxes (still missing the legs and casters)

I'm still working with the reseller (Zoro tools) and the manufacturer (Balt AV / Mooreco) for a resolution. (I just want the missing pieces, and don't want to return everything and start over)

As an aside, the FM group suggested the Stake find an appropriate TV cart, as they didn't have any particular recommendations or sourcing solutions. A ward within our stake purchased a pair of slightly smaller TVs with smaller stands, and having used the stands I wasn't satisfied with the stability, as they were a bit "tipsy" (more so than even the older and heavier carts).

I'll update this thread with further news of my experiences with this stand.

gtsawyer wrote:Features that were especially important in my search for something to handle a large display:
…
- Cost

I finally zeroed in on the following cart that met most of the above requirements:
http://baltav.com/product.php?c=flat-pa ... -mount-c6b

Yes, I followed the link and the cost certainly was eye-opening.

Last update and summary on the Balt AV cart.

The distributor finally resolved the parts issue by sending a new, complete set (3 boxes).

After having used the cart/TV for a few weeks, here are my impressions:
Sturdiness: 10/10 Very heavy, very well built, with little chance of tipping
Able to fit through doors: 10/10 This easily fits, with an inch or two to spare, through the standard door opening (I'll measure the actual door height and width here shortly)
Able to handle large TVs: 10/10 Yes, and quite easily. You will need two people to assist in mounting it
Cost: 4/10 This cost almost as much as the TV. To it's credit, the stand will almost certainly last for decades, and I suspect last longer than multiple TVs.

Things I like:
Very sturdy
Unlikely to tip
Low safety hazard when moving
Nice, solid unit

Things I don't like:
I would have liked the ability for two casters to lock in one direction. Keeping this large unit pointed straight down the hallway is somewhat difficult. It would prove to be a challenge for a weak/small person.
Accessories like power strip other cable and connector storage have to be added by yourself
Until I removed the metal "rigidity" panel, it was quite noisy when moved. As it turns out, the panel offered no additional strength, and only added to the noise.

Next chore is looking for a suitable stand for a smaller TV, which should be much less work.

Here is one I've used recently. Seems to be a good price.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00RPP ... UTF8&psc=1

In our stake, we ended up with a new meetinghouse library. It came with larger flat screen TVs on a cart made for them. The smaller ones came in a carrying case so they were more portable.

I'm sure there were problems in transition, but I'd hope that FM is now able to get the right carts for any new TVs.

Is there an official document stating the correct/updated policies and procedures for updating meetinghouse electronics (tv's, wifi, computers)?

Yes, https://clerksupport.lds.org. The training for new STS and the meeting house tech policy define it.