Audio mixers

I'm finally going to buy an audio mixer for our stake instead of using my own -- not just for webcasts but for other times when we need to have more inputs than we have available in a room.

For the latter I like the Mackie VLZ series as they have a mic/line output level switcher. Unfortunately that series doesn't have very many mic inputs compared to others in the same price range. Are there any other sub-$200 mixers that have this feature that have 4 inputs, or sub-$200 that have 6 inputs?

Has anyone sent the output of a mixer without this feature straight into a mic input just by keeping the levels low? That wouldn't be an ideal gain structure though.

craiggsmith wrote:Has anyone sent the output of a mixer without this feature straight into a mic input just by keeping the levels low? That wouldn't be an ideal gain structure though.

I wouldn't recommend it. But it's not hard to build an attenuation cable. I know there's a post on here somewhere were someone posted a schematic to convert XLR line level to XLR mic level. Worked fine for me

RussellHltn wrote: I know there's a post on here somewhere were someone posted a schematic to convert XLR line level to XLR mic level. Worked fine for me

I think you mean this post (and review the posts that follow it).

aebrown wrote:I think you mean this post (and review the posts that follow it).

That wasn't what I was remembering, but I may have used that as my staring point and used just the 3 resistors at the end.

Nice, I could make something like that, but I guess I could just use the crab as well, but it would sure be nice to have something a little more streamlined. There are ways to balance the signal without a transformer but I'm not sure what is used.

Another option would be to permanently modify a mixer's XLR outputs to be mic level, and leave the 1/4" outputs at line level. Then you wouldn't have to worry about someone not using a separate adapter or having the switch in the wrong position.

I really like the Behringer Xenyx 1002B mixer I purchased for our stake. It's very versitile - it has 6 channels/faders that can mix microphone inputs (up to 5) with mono line input (all 6 channels can do mono line input) or stereo line input (4 of the channels can do stereo line input). It also has two sets of stereo line-level outputs.

The main thing I like about it is that it's has slider faders, but is still a compact board (a very cool/different board layout).

Highly recommend it.

Thanks, I'll look into those. I forgot about Behringer as they aren't well loved in the pro audio world due to reliability issues when they first came out, so I had tuned them out. But they may be a lot better now.

I have a used Mackie VLZ1402PRO that I paid $200 for. Our stake has a Peavey RQ200 which also works fairly well. Both have 6 XLR inputs and gain control which would allow feeding into the sound system. The Mackie has XLR outputs, but when we use the Peavey we have to use the audio interface box (the "crab").

Aaron Z

I actually have an older US-made 1402VLZ that has served me well for many years. I'm surprised they still haven't added some features that are commonplace on most mixers though. FWIW I see the Presonus Studiolive digital mixers have adjustable output gain, and Shure has some basic mixers that do as well, although more designed for installations.

Most of the time I just need something for webcasts or small YW programs etc. (4 mic inputs is probably sufficient) that won't intimidate people. For these many of the features such as EQ and aux sends are superfluous. Then we have a Christmas concert with a live orchestra that has not been sufficiently mic'd in the past, with 6 inputs ideal although 4 might work. But I hate to spend the money and then not have enough. For the annual larger events such as roadshows and stake plays we would need something larger, with more features. The problem with those is you can't predict how many inputs you'll need. So I'm inclined to still just buy a small one and rent or borrow a larger one when needed, but if I'm going to spend several hundred it might be worth spending a few more hundred (if the Stake Presidency approves) and get something universal. One thing about the larger Mackies is it appears the output level switch is recessed so harder to accidentally change.

craiggsmith wrote:Most of the time I just need something for webcasts or small YW programs etc. (4 mic inputs is probably sufficient) that won't intimidate people. For these many of the features such as EQ and aux sends are superfluous. Then we have a Christmas concert with a live orchestra that has not been sufficiently mic'd in the past, with 6 inputs ideal although 4 might work. But I hate to spend the money and then not have enough. For the annual larger events such as roadshows and stake plays we would need something larger, with more features. The problem with those is you can't predict how many inputs you'll need. So I'm inclined to still just buy a small one and rent or borrow a larger one when needed, but if I'm going to spend several hundred it might be worth spending a few more hundred (if the Stake Presidency approves) and get something universal. One thing about the larger Mackies is it appears the output level switch is recessed so harder to accidentally change.

I have a pair of Shure SCM810s. They will take 8 mic inputs and an aux input. I run them into one of the inputs on my Mackie or directly into the building system if I need extra inputs.
In your case, I might get a small mixer and a larger mic mixer. It would be about the same price as a larger mixer, but wouldn't be as intimidating to non-technical people.

Aaron Z

The other thing I wish mixers had was a "mono" button on the stereo channels. It seems most of the time we need a mono signal, but if you have a stereo source you have to run it into two channels to get the appropriate mono output.

craiggsmith wrote:The other thing I wish mixers had was a "mono" button on the stereo channels. It seems most of the time we need a mono signal, but if you have a stereo source you have to run it into two channels to get the appropriate mono output.

My Mackie will mix down to mono if you ONLY plug into the left 1/4" main output channel. If you also plug into the right channel, it gives you stereo.

Aaron Z

Hmmm, as I think about it I wonder if I've missed an opportunity all these years. Those are balanced normalized jacks. If you just plug in one mono cable it will send the signal to both channels. If you plug in a TRS stereo jack it will assume it's a balanced mono signal, and I was thinking it would subtract one side from the other, but as I think about it one side is opposite in polarity to the other so I guess it must sum them. Is this correct? Then I guess it would actually work. And by the same principle I can sent a stereo into a single speaker via it's balanced input?

FYI I've found another mixer with an output level switch -- the Allen & Heath ZED10. A bit pricey for what you get but one of the best names in the business.

Here are my top two recommendations for mixers:

The low end one is this, which can be bought at Amazon currently for $99:

Mackie 402-VLZ3 4-Channel Compact Recording-SR Audio Mixer
This mixer only takes two regular XLR microphone inputs, but can take two additional inputs from RCA cables. This is not very versatile for lots of inputs, but it would help quite a bit.

The higher end model I recommend is this one, which can be bought on Amazon currently for $208 (on sale):

Mackie PROFX8 8-Channel Compact Effects Mixer with USB

This one has eight channels in (only four are XLR, which is what most of our mics use, but it also takes a bunch of other formats in). Personally, if we are going to spend money on a mixer, it makes more sense to me to get one that has a greater amount of inputs (within reason, of course). This one is quite powerful for the cost and really gives you control over the audio before it gets into the church sound system (where controlling it is really quite limited).

craiggsmith wrote:If you plug in a TRS stereo jack it will assume it's a balanced mono signal, and I was thinking it would subtract one side from the other, but as I think about it one side is opposite in polarity to the other so I guess it must sum them. Is this correct?

No, this is not correct, sorry I wasn't thinking. A balanced input does indeed subtract the two signals -- this cancels the noise while doubling the signal (since one is inverted). If a stereo signal is input all the common components would be canceled.